--- Log opened Tue Mar 18 20:14:29 2003
20:15 -!- Topic for #iip-dev: IIP Meeting - logfiles: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/
20:15 [Users #iip-dev]
20:15 [ jeremiah] [ logger] [ mids] [ UserX] 
20:15 -!- Irssi: #iip-dev: Total of 4 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 4 normal]
20:15 -!- Irssi: Join to #iip-dev was synced in 5 secs
20:17 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o mids] by Trent
22:00 < nop> hi
22:00 <@mids> Tue Mar 18 21:00:10 UTC 2003
22:00 < hezekiah> Hi. :)
22:00 <@mids> HEllo
22:00 <@mids> so 
22:01 <@mids> whats on the agenda?
22:01 < hezekiah> I have no clue.
22:01 < armpit> howdy
22:01 < hezekiah> Hi
22:01 <@mids> ok
22:01 < armpit> mind if i lurk around? :)
22:01 <@mids> then lets just keep a question round
22:01 <@mids> btw, Freenet 0.5.1 is out
22:01 < hezekiah> Cool. :)
22:02 < hezekiah> Maybe one of these days I'll try using it. :)
22:02 <@mids> so, any IIP questions?
22:02 < Hitman> quick run down of current status would be nice nop
22:02 < Hitman> so we can get up to speed on what's happening with it all
22:03 <@mids> good point
22:03 < nop> hold
22:03  * hezekiah turns on beautiful classical music those tech-support hotlines play while we wait for them ...
22:04  * Hitman shudders as teh memories flood back
22:05  * mids runs out of breath
22:06  * mids dies
22:06 < hezekiah> Well, meanwhile I think it should be noted that some people don't appear to have remembered the meeting starts 2 hours earlier now.
22:06 <@mids> or they just dont care :)
22:07 < nop> ok
22:07 < nop> back
22:07 < hezekiah> Yay! :)
22:07 < nop> 1.1.0 is out, 1.2 meeting needs to be set
22:07 < nop> so that hez, Userx and I can discuss furthur major development
22:08 <@mids> maybe the development cycle should be more open?
22:08 <@mids> so others can hear what the plans are too?
22:08 < nop> we will log and place in research directory
22:08 < nop> on invisiblenet
22:08 <@mids> ok
22:08 < Aprogas> that would counter allegations that IIP is vapourware
22:09 < hezekiah> mids: I think openess is great, but it can get pretty annoying when you are trying to discuss coding and the listeners are continueally getting off the subject into theory. :(
22:09 < nop> that's why we log
22:09 < nop> ;)
22:09 < hezekiah> I think the logging is a good idra.
22:09 < nop> and publish
22:09 <@mids> hezekiah: channels can be moderated
22:09 < hezekiah> Maybe we could post the log to the iip-dev mailing list too? That would give people a good idea of what's going on behind the scenes.
22:09 < Hitman> open discussion of ideas and brainstorming would rock, but end product changes will have to be discussed seperately by the actual coding team otherwise thing's won't get implemented correctly
22:09 <@mids> k
22:09 < hezekiah> They could pipe up with all kinds of suggestions then. :)
22:10 < hezekiah> UserX? Are you currently present?
22:10 < UserX> i'm present
22:10 < hezekiah> OK. :)
22:10 < hezekiah> (To both UserX and nop): Do either of you have any times for that meeting that would be good for you?
22:11 < hezekiah> I mentioned the times that won't work for me, in my email. I hope it's a small enough subset not to be a problem. :)
22:12 <@mids> anyway, you can settle that in private
22:12 < Hitman> in my personal opinion I think that decentralisation of the network is the number one priority.  To make IIP completely p2p would take away any ability whatsoever the goverment and other nasty forces have to shut it down.  While a central server exists tehy can still end it....ie napster
22:12 < hezekiah> OK.
22:12 <@mids> we can read the logs afterwards.
22:13 < hezekiah> Hitman: decentralization is the main theme of 1.2
22:13 < Hitman> sweet
22:14 < hezekiah> So where were we?
22:15 < hezekiah> Oh, yeah. Nop was listing the current status of 1.2.
22:15 < nop> yeah
22:15 < hezekiah> Did you have anything else to add, nop?
22:15 < nop> so 1.2 we need a dev meeting to start
22:15 < nop> and from that point is our start
22:16 < Aprogas> did you create a branch in CVS so bugs in 1.1 can be fixed without requiring users to update to a alpha or beta state 1.2 ?
22:17 < UserX> The development is already in a seperate branch from 1.1
22:18 < hezekiah> And the 1.1 release was tagged v1-1-0.
22:18 < Aprogas> so there is a tag on the release, but not a branch tag ?
22:18 < Aprogas> i assume the development is on the `MAIN' branch ?
22:19 < hezekiah> Uh, I currently don't know what CVS commands I should be running to tell the difference. :)
22:19 < UserX> 1.1 is on the MAIN branch
22:19 < Aprogas> something like cvsweb gives more overview of such things than cvs commands anyway; branchs in cvs are quite confusing
22:20 < Aprogas> anyway, having a release on the main branch and the development in a seperate branch is quite an uncommon setup; and that might have reasons
22:20 < Aprogas> maybe it is worth investigating if it would not be more useful to do it the other way around ?
22:25 < hezekiah> Well, I don't know much about CVS so my input wouldn't be much worth here. :)
22:26 < Aprogas> CVS is a scary beast
22:27 < hezekiah> Yeah. I wonder if it ate the other people in the room. It seems deathly quiet in here.
22:27 < Aprogas> i ended up re-importing sources numerous times because i messed up after trying to put my branches right
22:27 < hezekiah> ;-)
22:28 < Aprogas> so be careful with it
22:28 < hezekiah> *lol*
22:29 < hezekiah> Mids? Do we have another item on the agenda? It seems like we're done with this one (or else someone got eaten by the CVS beast.)
22:31 < Aprogas> well.. i didnt really see anyone reacting to my `suggestions'
22:31 < Aprogas> im wondering why the IIP development team uses this different way of using branches
22:31 < hezekiah> I have no clue.
22:31 < Aprogas> i guess 99% of the CVS-using project develop on the MAIN branch and keep releases on seperate branches
22:32 < hezekiah> I do know that it works fine.
22:32 < Aprogas> that will become obvious when you get 1.2
22:32 < Aprogas> what will happen with 1.1 which s currently on the main branch ?
22:32 < hezekiah> So I say that "If it isn't broken, then don't fix it."
22:32 < hezekiah> It's sources are tagged.
22:33 < Aprogas> a bug in it might be found
22:33 < Aprogas> and you might want to create 1.1.1
22:33 < hezekiah> I guess that if we need to do a bug fix, then someone checks out v1-1-0, fixes the bug, and commits under the tag v1-1-1.
22:33 <@mids> hezekiah: no, none
22:33 < Aprogas> hezekiah: that is possible too
22:33 < hezekiah> mids: As I said, I don't know much about CVS. :)
22:33 < Aprogas> but using release branches is more common
22:33 < UserX> the developement will probably be merged back on to the main branch. and if we need to do bug fixes/upgrades to 1.1 we just create a branch from it
22:33 < Aprogas> userx: ok
22:33 < hezekiah> Oh, well. I'll leave the CVS playing to the developers that understand it. :)
22:34 < Aprogas> noone understands CVS
22:34 < hezekiah> lol
22:34 < Aprogas> thats the problem
22:34 < Aprogas> its a beast that cannot really be tamed
22:34 < hezekiah> So, mids. What's next on the agenda? Question round?
22:34 <@mids> ok, I am out. cya
22:35 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o hezekiah] by Trent
22:35 <@hezekiah> OK. The question round has officially begun, I guess. :)
22:35 < Aprogas> oh
22:35 <@hezekiah> Questions?
22:35 <@hezekiah> (Not that I can promise an answer, but you can ask.)
22:37 <@hezekiah> Going once ...
22:37 <@hezekiah> Going twice ..
22:37 <@hezekiah> Gone!
22:38 <@hezekiah> Sold to the eternal silence of the ever questioning public (until the next iip-dev meeting that is.) ;-)
22:38 <@hezekiah> Well, it was nice talking to you all (and nice to be able to have UserX around and talking in an iip-dev meeting. I'm glad the time change has improved things for him.)
22:38 <@hezekiah> Bye, all! :)
22:38 < nop> bye
--- Log closed Tue Mar 18 22:43:48 2003