20:04:39 Yo 20:04:44 It's meeting time 20:06:47 zzz, psi, kytv, Meeh, dg 20:07:30 it is? 20:07:39 ah tuesday 20:09:03 present 20:09:48 meeting? 20:10:11 orignal: discussing Java I2P's todo list 20:10:35 While we wait for others to show up: http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/Roadmaps/1.0 20:10:41 Present as well, though I'm usually useless when it comes to these things. 20:11:37 I have adjusted the Gantt chart on the page above (that I set up for the 0.9.13-0.9.16 dev cycle) to show what I think we did. 20:13:30 interesting 20:14:06 multiple dests per tunnel <-- hasn't happened 20:14:22 Hasn't? Okay, my bad. 20:14:27 findbugs pass <-- has happened, but can always do it again 20:14:56 Multi-sessions per I2CP - that hasn't happened either *derp* 20:14:56 * str4d fixes 20:15:48 wow, we had a good year (imho) 20:16:38 yes, we had 20:17:14 zzz: yeah, I called it part of the audit prep specifically, but you are right. 20:17:39 investigate new DH <---- I would say only half done, w.r.t NTCP2 anyway 20:20:26 Gantt doesn't easily show half-done :P 20:20:34 Reload page, fixes 20:21:36 Okay, so that is what we got done last cycle. 20:21:36 not done then 20:23:45 The purpose of this meeting is to start planning what is to be done next cycle. 20:23:46 I would like to reiterate that a 3-5 release planning cycle seems to be very helpful in focusing our minds and our resources 20:23:47 (When I update the Gantt chart, I will leave the half-done ones there and push them forward) 20:23:47 At the previous meeting I asked attendees to come up with a few points each of things they want to see done on I2P, and around I2P 20:23:47 Please can we paste those now? 20:24:21 +1 20:24:36 And now we have evidence for it! 20:26:15 without getting into what's more important than what, I think almost everything that's shown and unfinished on the gantt chart is still important 20:27:01 I agree. 20:27:07 I still want to see what ideas people came up with over the last week, if any. 20:27:45 Here's mine: http://pastethis.i2p/show/jF2RkHwrIPkCb0yOpI7l/ 20:27:46 Title: Paste #jF2RkHwrIPkCb0yOpI7l | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p) 20:28:07 I am out of options, I do see to get I2P out, with the help of bote android, i2p messenger is a option, a XMPP server, and syndie. Sorry, I still see syndie important. 20:28:27 eche|on: great, thanks! 20:28:43 Keep 'em coming :) 20:28:53 and with the android app there come restricted routes 20:28:54 my list of new things: solving the red hat ECDSA problem, migrating to EdDSA, Jetty 9 / Java 7, expand the Vuze userbase, and more marketing / outreach / partnerships / embedding 20:29:36 For logging perpetuity, I will write my ideas here too: 20:30:11 Todo in I2P: Routerconsole UX analysis and redesign; Take ideas from Tor's HS 2.0 design and apply to I2P Destinations; Bandwidth scheduling. Todo around I2P: Website theme improvements; Implement I2P-Bote fetching relays; Research 20:30:23 another one: orchid: fix it or kill it 20:30:32 +100 20:31:13 WRT the RedHat/Gentoo ECDSDA problem, maybe we could/should display a message in the sidebar (or logs) with a download link. Or maybe ask the user if 'we' should download it into ./lib 20:31:35 another one: test improvements, test hardware, windows testing 20:31:58 kytv: nice ideas (but discussing them can wait for another meeting :) 20:32:03 another one: spend more money 20:32:36 another one: China 20:32:58 Between these ideas and the not-completed list on the page above, we have a good pool of potential projects. 20:33:34 My goal is to get these projects tidied up, formalized and published on the website's todo page 20:34:11 Having poked around other projects' todo pages, this is the format I am proposing: 20:34:11 http://pastethis.i2p/show/nvexU3ZvSFOI6L5DrrqM/ 20:34:12 Title: Paste #nvexU3ZvSFOI6L5DrrqM | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p) 20:34:54 nice idea 20:35:10 Ditto on Orchid 20:35:10 My main "TODO around I2P" is with regards to testing. Not automated testing with software, per se, but any of our services going live without any sort of testing...just [poof], "it's live...dunno if it works though." 20:35:12 In I2P: Making the Installer install to the user directory in Windows to avoid any sort of permissions problems. It should be easy, but I don't know how. 20:35:16 Chrome did that (maybe still does it?) 20:35:41 My ideal end result: users can go to the todo page and find a list of all the ideas we have for projects in and around I2P. 20:36:11 another one: GSoC 20:36:14 There will be a tag cloud up the top that they can click on to filter projects that require certain skils 20:36:17 skills 20:36:21 another one: summertime meetup 20:37:54 another one: GNS investigation 2nd pass? 20:38:28 mmm 20:38:54 or maybe, just another discussion w/ those guys will do 20:39:09 Right now, I am going to cull from the Gantt the tasks we have completed. 20:39:27 can you save it and start a new one? 20:39:29 zzz: which of the bottom few have been completed (SSU replay detection etc.)? 20:39:38 Sure, I can. 20:39:49 it's kinda nice to show that we actually accomplish things 20:40:19 zzz: most of the stuff was done by you IMHO 20:40:35 id I miss the meeting? 20:40:37 I think I've reported everything that was on the wrong side of completed or not 20:42:39 New chart up 20:43:55 zzz: which of the three down the bottom should be pushed forward? I think client locking is still an issue? 20:43:59 I'd like to see much more planning and focus on the non-coding things in the next few months. Far too many things are either quite disorganized or not happening in anything approaching a disciplined or steady pace 20:44:09 (client tunnel locking) 20:44:18 zzz: I agree. 20:44:34 This will IMHO be helped by working on the todo page. 20:44:56 If we can explain the non-coding projects in a way that newcomers can understand and do, it also helps us. 20:44:59 not 100% sure atm what that client locking item is, but i think it's still unfinished 20:45:08 (Likewise for coding projects) 20:45:32 yup 20:45:53 * str4d pushes streaming improvements forward too 20:46:03 Can I cut SSU session replay detection then? 20:46:04 Do you mean the duplicate issues? 20:46:18 The way we'd get tunnels that don't unregister from I2PTunnel, and won't allow new ones? That sort of thing? 20:46:30 str4d, I'll have to get back to you re: SSU replay, not sure atm 20:46:45 I'd like to see less tunnel death rather than throughput 20:46:59 dg: that might be it. There is also the separate issue of the I2PTunnel startup locking the UI 20:47:29 put 'tunnel death' on there as a new item, why not 20:48:01 str4d: Forgot about that! 20:48:03 k 20:48:39 I think the locking thing I have some unchecked in code for, been dragging along for 18 months or so, but still not right 20:48:40 Next: look through the ideas above. Which ones should go on *our* 6-month sheet (ie. which should I add to Gantt)? 20:50:16 EinMByte: meeting in progress 20:50:21 (no) 20:51:51 I suggest everything go on there for now, then we later talk about priorities, or let the gantt dependencies tell us what to do next? 20:52:52 mmk 20:53:04 * str4d is pulling out the list from above and tidying it up now 20:53:08 psi: oh great. 20:54:08 potential item: benchmark tunnel throughput and message drop rates 20:54:26 EinMByte: do you have any ideas for our todo list? 20:55:15 NTCP2, possibly. Although it would be long term 20:56:39 EinMByte: for reference: http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/Roadmaps/1.0 20:56:53 thanks 20:57:04 (was about to ask) 21:00:23 Here is the list of everyone's ideas: 21:00:24 http://pastethis.i2p/show/K0fGRb2708ADbCTZ9u9K/ 21:00:25 Title: Paste #K0fGRb2708ADbCTZ9u9K | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p) 21:01:01 Nearly all of these can be turned into projects for the website todo page. 21:01:36 Next discussion topic: which of these (and the ones on the Gantt currently) are more important for us to do in the next six months? 21:02:48 restricted routes is probably the most important item IMO 21:02:50 with respect to syndie, maybe: I was working on this plugin - no time now though). This might be one of the things that can (?) bring more attention to syndie. 21:03:20 str4d: Tunnel death is absent and I feel that's quite important 21:03:37 If anyone is interested in doing firefox / icedove plugin development: you know what to do 21:03:37 dg: it's there (tunnel thread locking) 21:03:41 I thought that's what it was 21:03:49 oh, sorry str4d, I meant when connections are abruptly terminated 21:03:54 my bad 21:04:04 Ah, k 21:04:55 psi: I agree restricted routes are important. But I also think we should realize that it will take quite some time to implement 21:05:21 (not sure how much of the design / concept has been done) 21:05:35 In I2P: restricted routes, RedHat's ECDSA issues, Tor's HS 2.0, then the rest. Around I2P: Vuze userbase, GSoC, research, benchmark, then the rest. 21:06:04 I agree with EinMByte.. the router console redesign is important but that could take an indeterminate amount of time. 21:07:15 str4d: one more thing, possibly. I know some reasearchers who have developed a new concept for a DWSE (distributed web search engine), they might be interested in developing this as an I2P application 21:07:42 EinMByte: nice! 21:07:49 Since most DWSEs right now don't really work well, it would be very interesting to have this IMHO 21:08:01 no, by 'tunnel death' I meant 3-minute tunnel breakage, the Vuze guy's datagram test, etc. Distinct from local i2ptunnel locking issues. 21:08:07 It's also something I would consider implementing 21:08:20 I wasn't thinking of precisely 3-minute but that was included. 21:08:34 (with help, hopefully) 21:09:03 k, reload Gantt page 21:10:34 str4d: anyway don't count on this too much, it depends on whether I2P users are actually interested in something like this. 21:11:14 Also, I'm not sure about the GNS stuff. In any case it shouldn't have a high priority. 21:11:56 Updated new ideas paste: http://pastethis.i2p/show/1qxHbkWjD27N7SdzNJZL/ 21:11:57 Title: Paste #1qxHbkWjD27N7SdzNJZL | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p) 21:12:35 i'd say 4 broad categories are the highest importance: 1) near-term crypto migration continuing (addressbook, muiltidest, etc) 2) longer-term crypto planning/research (DH, LS2, NTCP2) 3) all things testing 4) all things non-coding 21:13:48 zzz: is that in order of importance? 21:14:05 ECDSA issues fall into the first category; Tor HS 2.0 falls into the second category. 21:14:21 no. roughly equal importance 21:14:44 So the only item not represented in those categories is restricted routes 21:15:28 Starting build #556 for job i2pd (previous build: SUCCESS) 21:15:30 Project i2pd build #556: SUCCESS in 8.2 sec: http://jenkins.killyourtv.i2p/job/i2pd/556/ 21:15:31 * orignal: eliminated NTCPServerConnection 21:15:32 * orignal: moved NTCP client code to Transports 21:16:34 maybe NTCP2 is not *that* important 21:16:50 and the reason I grouped them like that and say equal priority is that it's probably 4 separate groups of people for those 4 categories that could each make progress 21:17:08 or, at least before we can start propertly on the NTCP2 we need to do a lot of research, also answer a few very important questions 21:17:33 Project i2pd (Linux x86) build #33: SUCCESS in 1 min 47 sec: http://jenkins.killyourtv.i2p/job/i2pd%20(Linux%20x86)/33/ 21:17:44 zzz: indeed 21:17:51 it is interesting that i2p network tends to bring all fast routers together 21:17:58 Starting build #33 for job i2pd (Linux x64) 21:18:03 right. "NTCP2" is just shorthand for a bunch of stuff that may or may not actually result in something called "NTCP2" 21:18:34 and they do not prefer slow routers 21:18:40 Yes. In any case if we change the transport layers it's extremely important not to make mistakes, as that would probably break I2P entirely. 21:19:19 JekabsR: slower routers are still used just not as much 21:19:43 Project i2pd (Linux x64) build #33: SUCCESS in 1 min 52 sec: http://jenkins.killyourtv.i2p/job/i2pd%20(Linux%20x64)/33/ 21:20:05 zzz: if 2 is "research", then you are right though 21:20:33 it can be done simultaneously 21:21:52 * str4d is reworking the Gantt into these four categories (plus an Other category) 21:22:12 but there is a problem - client like destinations rarely get fast router connections 21:22:40 no? 21:22:46 JekabsR: not entirely sure if that is accurate 21:23:46 str4d, did we forget Android, or is that a separate roadmap? 21:23:59 zzz: we have forgotten it 21:24:01 JekabsR: hidden mode routers do have some issues, but other do get fast connections, as enough fast routers are available and do have free capacity 21:24:26 Technically I2P Android falls into the "in I2P" category 21:24:35 oh another reasearch question: how much capacity does i2p actually have right now? 21:25:14 maybe a 5th category for android makes more sense 21:25:46 but I'm not hung up on categories. I just mentioned the 4 as a quick way to communicate what I think is important 21:25:54 because they tend to create small number of really fast connections and large number of slow connections 21:26:11 [citation needed] 21:26:15 my router started to drop slow tunnels 21:26:24 zzz: I think it was a good idea 21:26:56 Refresh Gantt page now 21:27:07 JekabsR: https://geti2p.net/_static/pdf/I2P-PET-CON-2009.1.pdf 21:30:12 JekabsR: tunnels are dropped only on end of tunnel lifetime and if own tunnels need the capacity. 21:30:29 If you refresh http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/Roadmaps/1.0 you will now see the headings, each with a six-month bar. This gives an indication of how much time there is to fit everything in. 21:32:43 Now that we have some ideas for the next six months, we need to start planning times. 21:33:18 And who is going to tackle what. 21:33:52 my console frequently reports that it has too many incoming connections and tunnels are partially rejected. How i2p decides which one to reject? 21:34:08 'too many incoming connections'? 21:34:21 JekabsR: a meeting is currently ongoing, you may want to wait until it's over 21:35:00 I would also like some volunteers to help turn the list of ideas into a working projects page on the website todo 21:35:12 NTCP connections: 425. Limit: 425. Timeout: 2 min. 21:35:30 UDP connections: 1149. Limit: 1275. Timeout: 4 min. 21:36:14 limits are hit 21:37:42 router is using 80% of CPU power 21:38:23 Anyone? 21:39:36 JekabsR: 1) meeting underway, you may want to wait; 2) look at http://127.0.0.1:7657/peers#help 21:41:16 kytv: will check it out 21:41:44 str4d, i think you lost everybody after an hour 45. Maybe declare victory for now and we'll make more progress at another time? 21:41:45 Let's try some more specific questions. 21:41:52 Or that./ 21:41:55 330,0 / 342,4 KBps my current load 21:42:06 Yah, we have definitely made good progress. 21:42:30 and torrent uploads at 2 - 5kb speed :( 21:44:17 Thanks for the discussions, everyone! 21:44:20 * str4d warms up the baffer 21:44:20 * str4d ***bafs the meeting closed