--- Log opened Tue Dec 10 23:32:22 2002
23:32 -!- Topic for #iip-dev: http://www.patrick.fm/boobies/boobies.php?text=IIP <-- mmm, boobies, aka our new mascot!
23:32 [Users #iip-dev]
23:32 [@codeshark] [ icepick] [ Neo] [ pox   ] [ UserX ] 
23:32 [ Debolaz  ] [ logger ] [ nop] [ sferic] [ xcasex] 
23:32 -!- Irssi: #iip-dev: Total of 10 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 9 normal]
23:32 -!- Irssi: Join to #iip-dev was synced in 2 secs
23:34 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o mids] by Trent
23:34 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+v logger] by mids
23:53 < |EN3RGY|> wee
23:55 < mrflibble> lol, like the pic, is it ne1 we know?
23:55  * jeremiah_  wonders if this is working... using the metropipe JS interface...
23:55 < hobbs> jeremiah_ : you're sending, at least. :)
23:56 < jeremiah_> hobbs: looks like it works, meeting about to start? I'm at the public library
23:56 < hobbs> jeremiah_ : just a few minutes, yeah.
23:56 < Zwolly> i want to order an IIP mascot where can i buy them???
23:57 < nop> hehe
23:57 < jeremiah_> hey nop
23:57 < nop> hi
23:57 < nop> I like the metropipe thing
23:57 < nop> rather neat
23:57 < jeremiah_> yeah it's cool
23:57 < hobbs> yeah, and amazing that it works. >:)
23:58 < nop> works real well
--- Day changed Wed Dec 11 2002
00:00 <@mids> Tue Dec 10 23:00:04 UTC 2002
00:00 <@mids> Welcome to the 23th IIP meeting
00:00 < dangermouse> 22:48 by my clock :p
00:00 < xcasex> thankyou
00:00 <@mids> Agenda:
00:00 <@mids> 1) Welcome
00:00 <@mids> 2) RC3 finally
00:00 <@mids> 3) Security Advisory
00:00 <@mids> 4) Network inconsistancies
00:00 <@mids> 5) Questions?
00:00 <@mids> .
00:00 <@mids> Logs are available on
00:00 <@mids> http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/
00:01 <@mids> If you got questions related to the current agenda item, please ask
00:01 <@mids> otherwise safe them for the question round
00:01 <@mids> .
00:01 < nop> I'm gonna wait for a sec
00:01 <@mids> yeah, till they come back
00:02 < nop> k
00:02 <@mids> did you all see nop's IIP mascot submission?
00:02 <@mids> http://www.patrick.fm/boobies/boobies.php?text=IIP
00:02 < hobbs> nop : btw, whatever happened to those beeps in the MOTD? I actually liked them.
00:02 < jeremiah_> is it profane? I can't really look at profane stuff
00:02 < {Due}> hi all
00:02 < nop> oh, I think I fixed the problems
00:02 < hobbs> jeremiah_ : not suitable for a library.
00:02 -!- mids changed the topic of #iip-dev to: IIP Meeting - logfiles: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/
00:03 < nop> oh, got rid of our mascot
00:03 < nop> :(
00:03 < {Due}> here ppl only write in english?
00:03 -!- mids changed the topic of #iip-dev to: IIP Meeting - logfiles: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/ - IIP Mascot: http://www.patrick.fm/boobies/boobies.php?text=IIP
00:03 <@mids> {Due}: yeah
00:04 < |EN3RGY|> la mayoria si, {Due}
00:04 < {Due}> i really dont understand what is the meaning of this
00:04 < {Due}> :\
00:04 <@mids> ok, me hands the microphone to nop
00:04 < nop> alright
00:04 < nop> Welcome
00:04 < nop> to the nth
00:04 < nop> hezekiah: you should know
00:04 < hezekiah> 23rd
00:04 < nop> meeting
00:04 < nop> of IIP
00:04 < nop> clockwork
00:05 < nop> mids, agenda please
00:05 <@mids> 1) Welcome
00:05 <@mids> 2) RC3 finally
00:05 <@mids> 3) Security Advisory
00:05 <@mids> 4) Network inconsistancies
00:05 <@mids> 5) Questions?
00:05 < |EN3RGY|> {Due} entiendes algo ?
00:05 < nop> ok
00:05 < {Due}> si |EN3RGY|
00:05 < nop> please try and save comments for the questions part
00:05 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+oo nop hezekiah] by mids
00:05 < {Due}> ahora hay "chala", wait
00:05 < |EN3RGY|> XD
00:05 <@nop> so we can get throught his
00:05 < |EN3RGY|> ok
00:05 < {Due}> ;)
00:05 <@nop> 2) RC3 finally!!!
00:05 <@nop> yeah
00:05 <@hezekiah> Yeah!
00:05 < |EN3RGY|> q paranoia !
00:06 <@nop> RC3 is here and arrived in 50% less time than RC2
00:06 < {Due}> |EN3RGY| /say yeah!
00:06 < {Due}> ke todo hay ke decirtelo :\
00:06 <@mids> ok, be quiet people, I can barely hear nop
00:06 <@nop> hmm
00:06 < |EN3RGY|> yeah!
00:06 < |EN3RGY|> XDDD
00:06 <@nop> cayete
00:06 <@nop> or how ever you say it
00:06 <@nop> silencio
00:06 < |EN3RGY|> solo me entero
00:06 < |EN3RGY|> de algo sobre el RC3
00:06 < jeremiah_> nosotros hablamos espanol tambien
00:06 < {Due}> |EN3RGY| silencio ;)
00:06 <@nop> they are translating ;)
00:06 <@nop> haha
00:06 < |EN3RGY|> ok
00:07 <@nop> ok
00:07 <@nop> anyway
00:07 < |EN3RGY|> ok jeremiah_
00:07 <@nop> RC3 is here, and it includes what was requested as well as bugfixes
00:07 <@nop> version is definitely there this time :)
00:07 <@nop> so we're all happy
00:07 < {Due}> nop, before of that, waht is RC3 ?
00:07 <@nop> oh
00:07 <@nop> Release Candidate 3 of 1.1
00:07 < {Due}> ajam
00:08 <@nop> the neat thing about it, is the next version will be ...
00:08 <@nop> 1.1 STABLE!!!
00:08 <@nop> 1.1.0 STABLE
00:08 <@nop> so we have room for error ;)
00:08 < Rav-> haha
00:08 <@nop> we'll take the freent approach
00:08 < {Due}> nop i know about this soft just 5 minuts ago, plz tell me what this does
00:08 <@nop> build 500392938103967
00:08 <@nop> Due - http://help.invisiblenet.net
00:08 <@mids> {Due}: we will help you later
00:08 < {Due}> oka
00:09 <@nop> ok
00:09 <@nop> 3) Security Advisory
00:09 <@nop> accidentally came upon some weaknesses in Adelphia's PowerLink Network that is crucial to privacy
00:09 <@nop> so I felt the need to send them an advisory
00:09 <@nop> and post it to iip-dev list
00:09 < Debrys> Due: http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip/aboutMain.php take a look at this page....... and also the interview and docs....... most of the things you're asking yourself get answered there :) they're really no nonsense page..... pure info and straight to the point
00:10 <@nop> anyway
00:10 <@nop> if any users use adelphia
00:10  * {Due} reading ;)
00:10 <@nop> that is the reason I posted it
00:10 <@nop> for the benefit of our users
00:10 <@nop> as they host 5.5 million customers
00:10 <@nop> so we might have a few
00:11 <@nop> hopefully they will adhere to the advisory and fix it
00:11 <@nop> if not
00:11 <@nop> it will be publicized 30 days from the date
00:11 <@nop> which will apply a bit of pressure to fix the problem
00:11 <@nop> moving on
00:11 <@nop> Connection issue
00:11 <@nop> with the upgrade
00:11 <@nop> a lot of people probably have been shutting off their previous rc2 relay
00:11 <@nop> and turning on rc3
00:12 <@nop> this probably will happen over a span of a couple weeks
00:12 <@nop> most people aren't consistant with keeping track of upgrade day
00:12 <@nop> also
00:12 <@nop> there were a few times this past week that the colocation facility of the ircd server had some network maintenance
00:12 <@nop> this caused a few hiccups
00:12 <@nop> and it may have beend difficult to get on
00:12 <@nop> this is over
00:13 <@nop> and it should be pretty clean (other than relays dropping from time to time)
00:13 < jeremiah_> will a relay notify the admin when it should be updated?
00:13 <@nop> as in the IIP software notify?
00:13 <@mids> currently, no
00:13 <@nop> the relay admin?
00:13 <@nop> that should be optional
00:13 <@nop> for debatable anonymity reasons
00:13 < jeremiah_> yeah, but it isn't an option right now, correct?
00:13 <@codeshark> nop: maybe a simple version check would help
00:13 <@nop> correct it is not
00:14 <@nop> definitely an option that could appear in 1.1
00:14 <@nop> stable
00:14 <@nop> but I can't promise that
00:14 <@nop> as we want to keep changes to a minimum
00:14 < jeremiah_> ok
00:14 <@mids> I suggest we dont put it in
00:14 <@mids> only fix bugs
00:14 <@nop> as well do I for this version
00:14 <@codeshark> yes, no new features
00:15 <@hezekiah> I agree.
00:15 <@nop> ok
00:15 <@mids> are there any bug reports yet?
00:15 <@nop> I know that codeshark had one
00:15 <@codeshark> yeah, couldn't send mail, damn invisiblenet ;)
00:16 <@nop> haha
00:16 <@nop> send it when you can
00:16 <@nop> there's a couple of firewall questions
00:16 <@codeshark> iip.log, isproxy.ini, mynode.ref, seed.rnd are stored in current directory instead of ~iip/.iip  dir
00:16 <@nop> I think we might have to be more clear that 6667 isn't the only connection that should be open
00:17 <@nop> can you officially send it as an email
00:17 <@nop> it helps for tracking
00:17 <@codeshark> doesn't work ;)
00:17 <@nop> mail shoudl work
00:17 <@mids> nop: do you mean firewall rules for outgoing connections?
00:18 <@nop> yes
00:18 <@mids> ok
00:18 <@nop> I don't think all users realize how it works
00:18 <@mids> yeah we can add that to the firewall chapter of the FAQ
00:18 <@nop> ok
00:18 <@mids> or create that one if it doesnt exist
00:18 <@nop> anyway, cs can you submit it to our sourceforge bug report page
00:18 < {Due}> ok, one second
00:19 < {Due}> may i ask something?
00:19 <@nop> hold
00:19 <@nop> what's next on agenda
00:19 <@mids> question round!
00:19 <@nop> ok
00:19 <@nop> due
00:19 < {Due}> ;)
00:19 <@nop> you can ask
00:19 < {Due}> oka
00:19 <@codeshark> nop: ok
00:20 < {Due}> 1) mids says tha this servers is anonymoues
00:20 < {Due}> anonymous
00:20 < {Due}> <mids> we dont know where the server is
00:20 < {Due}> newsserver1.ussc.com
00:20 <@nop> that's a relay
00:20 <@nop> 1 of many
00:20 <@nop> your peers protect you
00:20  * Neo stands in question queue
00:21 < {Due}> but what is the meaning of all that?
00:21 < {Due}> i mean, all the ircu servers
00:21 <@mids> I'll try to help {Due} in private
00:21 < {Due}> has vhost
00:21 < {Due}> oka mind
00:21 <@nop> neo yes
00:21 <@mids> pop queue, neo
00:21 < Neo> Ok.
00:22 < Neo> nop: can you please give us:
00:22 < Neo> diff 'invisible internet' 'tarzan'
00:22 < Neo> thoughts please.
00:22 <@nop> I need to finish my read on tarzan before I can answer that
00:22 <@nop> but they are similar
00:22 <@nop> but I find some problems with tarzan
00:22  * jeremiah_  would like a url that describes tarzan
00:23 <@nop> neo do you have the url handy
00:23 < Neo> http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/tarzan/index.html
00:23 < jeremiah_> thank you
00:23 <@nop> I'll tell you what neo
00:23 <@nop> when I finish my read
00:23 <@nop> I will send you an email
00:23 <@nop> on my thoughts
00:24 <@hezekiah> What if you just submit the email to iip-dev?
00:24 <@nop> ok
00:24 < Rav-> can i make a suggestion
00:24 < Rav-> for the node.ref etc files
00:24 <@nop> there are aspects that can be fully utilized from tarzan
00:24 < Neo> nop: thanks
00:24 < Rav-> store them in user home directories
00:24 <@hezekiah> That would be nice.
00:25 < Rav-> so its easier to secure a proxy
00:25 < Rav-> and have it update noninteractively
00:27 < Debrys> ahem:....... it would be nice if i could use IIP withouth installation and copied file....... i.e. copy the files on a disk......... go to someone with a pc and irc-client........ run IIP from disk withouth any files copied to the hard-disk....... so i would be thankfull if this user-home-dirs thingie would be an option
00:29 <@mids> currently it _should_ look in several places
00:29 <@mids> current directory, homedir
00:29 <@mids> and system wide directory
00:29 <@mids> I dont remember in what order that happens
00:29 < jeremiah_> it would also good to be able to run the system from memory w/o config files so someoen could use it and then delete it easily (not sure how possible this is right now)
00:29 < Debrys> okay, thanks for the info mids
00:30 <@nop> knoppix
00:30 <@nop> www.knoppix.net
00:30 <@mids> Debrys: but codeshark just reported a bug on that, so it might not work :)
00:30 <@codeshark> Debrys: yes, there's a problem with this feature
00:30 <@codeshark> some files are stored in local directory
00:30 < xcasex> jeremiah_: just mount a portion of ram to the filesystem D:
00:30 < xcasex> :D
00:30 < Debrys> well, i'm okay if i know it will work in the future :)
00:31 < Debrys> its just a possibility i would miss if it would be discarded in future development
00:31 < Rav-> from memory only the node.ref file needs to be local.. is that right?
00:32 <@nop> 7and listen.ref
00:32 <@nop> and
00:32 < Debrys> cs: local dir is okay....... because the local dir would be the diskette?
00:32 <@nop> and isproxy.ini
00:32 < Rav-> yeah thats right
00:32 < Rav-> 3 files
00:32 <@nop> although
00:32 < Debrys> the only problem would be if its run from a cd........ but thats okay to me
00:32 <@mids> you can specify the file location if you run isproxy
00:32 <@mids> try: isproxy -h
00:32 <@mids> if will give an overview of options
00:33 < Debrys> °nods°
00:33 < Rav-> atm i have those 3 files rw for users since iip starts as a user daemon not a system daemon
00:34 <@nop> ok
00:34 <@nop> I'll bb in a bit
00:35 <@mids> other questions?
00:35 < Debrys> not for now or 1.1
00:35 < Rav-> mmm... update notification?
00:35 < Rav-> wouldnt be anonymous i guess
00:36 <@mids> Rav-: the server could send a control message 
00:36 < Rav-> okay
00:36 <@mids> atually it already sends the version I think
00:36 <@mids> but then again
00:36 <@mids> if I run a public relay
00:37 <@mids> what should the relay do if it sees that it is too old?
00:37 < Rav-> you could include it in node.ref
00:37 < Rav-> dunno
00:37 < jeremiah_> it could be given the option of emailing the admin
00:37 < jeremiah_> or anonymail
00:37 <@mids> yeah maybe
00:37 < Debrys> what if clients get to know about a new version from other clients..... not the server? this could also work in a decentralized network........ since if update notification is server dependant it wouldn't work when IIP goes decentralized?
00:38 < Rav-> yeah thats why i was thinking node.ref
00:38 <@mids> I dont think it is possible to do it in a decentralized environment
00:38 <@mids> unless you sign those messages by the IIP development team
00:38 <@mids> since otherwise it would be too easy to send fake messages
00:38 < hezekiah> Right
00:39 < Debrys> thats true
00:39 < Rav-> hmm
00:39 <@mids> actually
00:39 <@mids> once it is fully distributed
00:39 <@mids> it could well be that there are multiple version
00:39 < Debrys> but would it be THAT evil if a fake "new version" message is received? except of being annoying?
00:39 <@mids> +s
00:39 <@mids> and clones etc
00:40 <@mids> Debrys: it would be easy to do, and make it not useful anymore
00:40 < Rav-> that should be a good case for update notification
00:40 < Debrys> okay
00:40 <@mids> what would be better is the admins subscribing to the IIP development mailinglist
00:40 < Rav-> dont know how you would dist the message
00:40 <@mids> :)
00:40 <@mids> maybe we should make other mailinglists in the future
00:40 <@mids> like iip-announce
00:41 < xcasex> dont forget the-iip-133+3
00:41  * jeremiah_  has to go
00:41 < jeremiah_> bye
00:41 < jeremiah_> will login later
00:41 < Rav-> when you say distributed, do you mean as part of a decentralised iip network or do you mean you are releasing the server daemon for use on other networks
00:41 < hezekiah> bye
00:44 <@mids> Rav-: decentralized
00:46 < hezekiah> Well, I'm off. Bye everyone.
00:47 <@mids> ok
00:47 <@mids> hereby I declare the meeting beeing over
00:47 <@mids> see you next week, same time, same place
00:48 <@mids> feel free to hang around a bit
00:48 <@mids> and if there are more questions / comments, ask em in #iip or #anonymous
--- Log closed Wed Dec 11 00:48:34 2002