--- Log opened Tue Nov 26 22:43:56 2002
22:44 -!- Topic for #iip-dev: IIP meeting | logs: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/ | sneak rc3 preview for unix http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/iip-1.1-rc3-mids1.tgz | please give feedback
22:44 [Users #iip-dev]
22:44 [ CwZ|away] [ Disposable] [ icepick] [ logger] [ pox] [ UserX] 
22:44 -!- Irssi: #iip-dev: Total of 6 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal]
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22:44 < logger> test
23:35 < nop> IIP dev meeting in 25 minutes, Special appearance by Capn' crunch aka John Draper
23:36 < Disposable> cool
23:36 < Disposable> the famous capncrunch
23:36 < Disposable> :P
23:36 < nop> yes
23:37 < nop> friend of mine
23:37 < nop> ;)
23:37 < Disposable> yeah?
23:37 < nop> he's working on porting iip to mac os 9
23:37 < Disposable>  cool
23:37 < ptsc> unfortunately i'm off to do laundry but will lurk
23:37 < nop> ok
23:37 < ptsc> nop, why not an os x.2 clean version?
23:37  * Disposable is listening to The Beets - Killer Tofu
23:37 < nop> what?
23:37 < nop> ptsc, we have os x versions
23:37 < Disposable> hmmm
23:37 < nop> we need os 9
23:38 < nop> because there are still a lot of people on it
23:38 < ptsc> ah, okay.  i was considering getting a mac that could run os x
23:38 < nop> yes
23:38 < nop> but only 20% of mac users have switched to X
23:38 < ptsc> in my case, i'd be switching to mac specifically *because* of x
23:39 < Disposable> lol
23:39 < Disposable> yeah
23:39 < Disposable> it looks so sweet
23:39 < Disposable> :)
23:39 < Disposable> i wunna try it
23:39 < Rain> "unix for users done right" some feel
23:39 < ptsc> i saw it at a friend's house who has been a mac freak for ages
23:39 < ptsc> and it just looks awesome
23:39 < ptsc> plus they brought back the NeXT-style file browser
23:39 < ptsc> which has always ruled
23:40 < ptsc> ok bbl
23:40 < Rain> "the first lickable interface", according to mr jobs.
23:41 < Disposable> :/
23:48 < Disposable> wb
--- Day changed Wed Nov 27 2002
00:00 < nemesis> blubb
00:00 < nemesis> 23 UTC
00:00 < nop> ok
00:00 < nop> welcome to the 21st iip meeting
00:01 < nop> on the agenda
00:01 < nop> 1) welcome
00:01 < nop> 2) why rc3 isn't released yet
00:01 < nop> 3) when will it be released
00:01 < nop> 4) OS 9 port by Cap'n Crunch
00:01 < nop> 5) Questions and comments
00:02 < nop> ok
00:02 < nop> welcome
00:02 < nop> :)
00:02 < nop> codeshark is out of the country on business, and will be back later this week
00:02 < nop> he's our release coordinator
00:02 < nop> and if he's not back shortly, mids and I will arrange the release candidate
00:02 < nop> and do it that way by friday
00:02 < Aprogas> one should only accept the function of release coordinator, if one knows to have time for that function
00:02 < nop> when will it be released, friday at latest
00:03 < nop> comments are saved for last 
00:03 < nop> thnx though aprogas
00:03 < Aprogas> ok
00:03 < nop> ok, os 9 port, Cap'n Crunch has been working (along with his friend) on porting IIP to mac os 9 users
00:04 < nop> hopefully, he will be on here shortly to give us some detail
00:04 < nop> if not I'll send out an email
00:04 < nop> to iip-dev with the latest from him
00:04 < nop> oh speak of the devil
00:04 < crunchman> Ok,   I'm on 
00:04 < nop> Hi crunch
00:04 < Aprogas> nop: that must be bpb in disguise
00:04 < nop> can you give us a quick detail of what's going on with os 9
00:04 < crunchman> Of course I didn't get the chance to read over the source so I can bring up my issues.
00:05 < nop> k
00:05 < crunchman> yes - I can.
00:05 < nop> the floor is yours, take it away
00:05 < crunchman> basically - the way IIP was written,  it's a CAAN OF WORMS if I have to use the structures you are already using.
00:06 < crunchman> There is NO discrete seperation between the GUI and the guts.
00:06 < crunchman> Let me explain.
00:06 < crunchman> It is VERY baised towards WinBlows.
00:06 < crunchman> As you know,  the Mac uses resources for the GUI components.
00:07 < crunchman> I need to examine the code now,   and would like to take a few mins to go over my notes,  so I can be more specific.
00:07 < nop> ok
00:07 < nop> either way, we can cover that later, but Crunch is working on the os 9, and we will aid him with what we can so that it may be not so tedious a task
00:08 < nop> reasons for the port, is only 20% of mac users have made the switch to os x
00:08 < nop> they still rely on os 9
00:08 < nop> so a lot of mac os users donated money towards this goal
00:08 < nop> and any other donations are welcome to assist crunch for his time on this project
00:09 < nop> questions and comments from iip users etc
00:09 < nop> ?
00:09  * Disposable is listening to Creedence Clearwater Revival - Fortunate Son
00:09 < Aprogas> comment: one should only accept the function of release coordinator, if one knows to have time for that function
00:09 < Rain> question: what will be new in rc3
00:09 < Rain> ?
00:09 < nop> mainly bug fixes, hold, I'll get the changelog
00:09 < Aprogas> /exec -o cat ChangeLog | head -200
00:10 < bpb> question: since when does IIP get donations?
00:10 < crunchman> bob cant get on
00:10 < nop> + iip1.1-rc3:
00:10 < nop> + - Display of version number for windows (menu option) and unix (command line).
00:10 < nop> + - Random number generation fix.
00:10 < nop> + - IIP network connections are no longer paused while in the setup screen.
00:10 < nop> + - Now exits if it can't bind to a socket at startup.
00:10 < nop> +   Windows now displays a message box informing that it can't bind to port.
00:10 < nop> + - Several bugfixes and one memory leak fixed.
00:10 < crunchman> i
00:10 < nop> + 
00:10 < crunchman> im on phone - helping him
00:10 < crunchman> hold on
00:10 < nop> k
00:10 < nop> that is the changelog
00:11 < Aprogas> comment: women are always late
00:11 < crunchman> hold on - still on phone w/ bob
00:11 < Rain> ok, thanks.
00:11 < nop> haha
00:11 < nop> ok meeting is officially over
00:11 < bpb> if he can't get iip to work, he could connect to my node
00:11 < Aprogas> huh ?
00:12 < nop> I will resume talks with crunch in here
00:12 < athena> okay, so i can slap aprogas now?
00:12 < Aprogas> but maybe i still had questions or commens
00:12 < bpb> :)
00:12 < nop> aprogas
00:12 < nop> do you have any more questions
00:12 < Aprogas> am i being ignored?
00:12 < nop> or comments
00:12 < nop> that pertains to IIP
00:12 < Rain> is the "sneak release" the same as the final one, and will i dare running it on a public proxy at this stage?
00:12 < crunchman> meeting is over?  - but we havent even gotten on yet!
00:12 < Aprogas> where is mids?
00:12 < bpb> crunchman: that's nop for you...
00:12 < nop> crunch we can still talk in here
00:12 < Aprogas> no mids no meeting
00:12 < crunchman> Bob is trying to get on - and yet the meeting is now over?
00:12 < nop> rain sneak is the same yes
00:12 < nemesis> hm... nop, i use blackbox under windows xp, why theres no cmd line version of IIP out?
00:13 < nemesis> that i can use as an service..
00:13 < crunchman> bpb - I have no clue what you mean by "crunchman: that's nop for you"
00:13 < Aprogas> bpb means nothing with it
00:13 < Aprogas> he loves to confuse people
00:13 < nop> well, nemesis iip -d might be able to do that for you
00:13 < crunchman> still trying to get bob logged in.
00:13 < bpb> crunchman: he's cutting off the meeting after it hasn't begun
00:14 < nop> the "official" meeting is over
00:14 < Disposable> hehe
00:14 < nop> other than comments
00:14 < crunchman> sorry I couldn't get on sooner.
00:14 < Rain> ok, so i might as well de-install the rc2 proxy i recently installed today, and replace it with rc3, no risk?
00:14 < Aprogas> nop: will there be an rc4 or even rc5, and when are they expected, and when is iip 1.1 expected?
00:14 < nop> rc3 should be final before 1.1
00:15 < nop> unless
00:15 < Aprogas> of course the release candidate comes before the release
00:15 < crunchman> Could someone call bob on phone and help him
00:15 < nop> unless major bugs were found
00:15 < nemesis> hm....
00:15 < Aprogas> nop: why do i get the idea you forget what a rc is all the time ?
00:15 < nemesis> nop, must i shutdown my current iip for -d?
00:16 < Aprogas> nop: so when are 1.1 and 1.1-rc3 expected?
00:16  * bpb remembers when decentralized 2.0 was expected ;)
00:16 < nemesis> crunchman: help with what?
00:17 < crunchman> bob cant get on this IRC server.
00:17 < crunchman> I tried to help him - I gave up.
00:17  * Aprogas remembers saying that iip 1.1 would be released the day after freenet 0.5
00:17 < crunchman> I asked Lance to help him get on.
00:17 < Aprogas> crunchman: what kind of error does he get ?
00:17 < crunchman> When he's on...  he can give you guys an update in HIS progress.
00:18  * Disposable is listening to Creedence Clearwater Revival - Susie Q
00:18 < crunchman> I don't know - I didnt get chance to ask him - sorry.
00:18 < nemesis> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah *crying*
00:18 < nemesis> mids
00:18 < nemesis> i have 5 iip process running...
00:18 < crunchman> I REALLY would like to go off and re-examine the IIP work I did - so I can answer intellegent questions on the issues I want to bring up.
00:18 < nemesis> fuck it *grrr*
00:18 < crunchman> but I want BOB up here first.
00:19 < crunchman> because he also has to explain HIS part in the project
00:19 < Aprogas> it would be useful if we would know what kind of problem he has with connecting to here
00:19 < crunchman> I think he will address the group on his "socket" problems.
00:19 < Aprogas> is he using his own isproxy or yours?
00:19 < crunchman> Nop is talking to him on the phone right now - i hope.;
00:20 < crunchman> Bob has a Mac...   I think he's using ircle
00:20 < crunchman> this is what I'm using right now.
00:20 < nop> I am
00:20 < nop> athena
00:20  * Kyfhon remembers trying that vile thing in an emulator
00:20 < Disposable> question: primary mac developeman will before os 9 ? 
00:20 < nop> he's using athena
00:20 < crunchman> ok,  i'll be right back.
00:20 < nemesis> re....
00:20 < nemesis> are no pid implented in iip yet?
00:21 < nemesis> or cmd line output...
00:21 < nop> crunch, his inet connection is acting up
00:21 < nemesis> i always started a new instance with iip -d  or -h or -? and ?
00:23 < Aprogas> maybe he could come tomorrow, or at next week's meeting then
00:24 < bpb> well, captn crunch made a atleast celebrity appearance today.
00:24 < bpb> err
00:24 < Aprogas> never heard of him, im from the pentium generation
00:25 < bpb> minus the atleast
00:25 < bpb> Aprogas: you never heard of captain crunch?
00:25 < Aprogas> no
00:25 < bpb> he is THE LEGEND
00:25 < Aprogas> nop: IIP should become a tiny bit more formal
00:25 < xenode> im from the pentium generation and i still've heard of him
00:25 < nop> formal?
00:25 < Aprogas> of course its an opensores project, so it will always be informal
00:25 < bpb> Aprogas: you mean without your rudeness?
00:26 < Aprogas> but right now it seems like a chaotic bunch of people doing some things in a basement and something coming out of nowhere once in a while
00:26 < bpb> Captain Crunch is the man who started telephone fraud :)
00:26 < Aprogas> it seems completely unorganised to me
00:26 < Aprogas> bpb: as i said, im from the pentium generator
00:26 < xenode> Aprogas: thats no excuse
00:26 < bpb> well, maybe not started it, but he did it using a captain crunch whistle
00:26 < nemesis> hm....
00:27 < Aprogas> its not meant as an excuse, its a reason
00:27 < rda> i am here
00:27 < xenode> its not a reason either
00:27 < Kyfhon> Aprogas: What do you expect? Snappy logos and a pr gremlin?
00:27 < nemesis> irc are at the most time idle
00:27 < Aprogas> kyfhon: no, but that is all i see now
00:27 < bpb> ...and used it to call the pope long distance for free
00:27 < nemesis> whats about VoIP (IIP) ;)
00:27 < Aprogas> i'd like releases, and code, and bugfixes and stuff
00:27 < nemesis> 8kbit datastream
00:27 < bpb> the legendary phone call
00:27 < Aprogas> and less t-shirts, mugs, and interviews
00:27  * Kyfhon didn't know there were tshirts. Hmm
00:27 < crunchman> Ok,  back on again.
00:28 < crunchman> ok
00:28 < bpb> Aprogas: I can't believe you hadn't heard of Captn Crunch
00:28 < nemesis> lol
00:28 < hezekiah> crunchman: Good! :)
00:28 < bpb> geez Aprogas, you're a disgrace
00:29 < Aprogas> bpb: i know
00:29 < bpb> next thing I know you'll be saying you don't know who Steve Wozniac is
00:29 < Aprogas> nop: i also feel like my suggestions are being ignored
00:29 < Aprogas> dont know him either
00:29 < nop> well, you expect quite a bit
00:29 < Aprogas> im a hermit, i dont know many people
00:29 < Aprogas> maybe
00:29 < xenode> he must be fooling with us.. i mean.. jeez
00:29 < Aprogas> or maybe IIP isnt what i thought it was
00:29 < bpb> Aprogas: what about Steve Jobs?
00:29 < bpb> Aprogas: Bill Gates?
00:30 < Aprogas> bpb: sounds familiar, isnt he the Apple CEO
00:30 < bpb> Aprogas: 0x90
00:30 < bpb> yep
00:30 < Aprogas> and the second one the Microsoft Fuehrer
00:30 < Aprogas> i know 0x90
00:30 < Aprogas> but he isnt legendary
00:30 < bpb> true
00:30 < Aprogas> nop: what is IIP actually?
00:30 < bpb> but I wanted to make sure you knew who he was :)
00:31 < Aprogas> i know his address, get a copy of his phone bill, listen to his phonecalls sometimes, and have camera's behind his mirrors
00:31 < Aprogas> so i know him
00:31 < bpb> but captain crunch is one of the few true legends we have in the world of geekdom
00:31 < xenode> heh
00:31 < Aprogas> im not a geek, im a hermit
00:31 < bpb> Aprogas: that's too bad
00:31 < Aprogas> but i need IRC for some dynamics
00:31 < Aprogas> my shack is only statis
00:32 < Aprogas> and statis does not bring much inspiration
00:32 < bpb> nop: you know the world of geekdom well, correct? :)
00:32 < nop> yes
00:32 < nop> aprogas IIP is what it is
00:32 < Aprogas> nop: which is ?
00:32 < Aprogas> im not sure if i know what IIP is actually
00:32 < Aprogas> or what it is meant to be
00:32 < Aprogas> can you tell me ?
00:33 < nop> it would take too long
00:33 < nop> read the site
00:33 < Aprogas> bla
00:33 < nop> rda join #dev
00:33 < bpb> haha
00:33 < Aprogas> i read it
00:33 < Aprogas> #dev, #iip-dev, #iip, #anonymous
00:33 < Aprogas> *g*
00:33 < Aprogas> you want to DoS my client by letting me join more channels than it can handle?
00:33 < bpb> they're all conspiring against us in #dev
00:34 < nop> well aprogas it doesn't matter to you
00:34 < nop> you're not a developer
00:34 < Aprogas> ok
00:34 < Aprogas> indeed i am not
00:34 < nop> so your expectations must remain as a critic
00:34 < nop> critics don't get what they want
00:34 < nop> developers do
00:34 < Aprogas> im not a critic
00:34 < bpb> hahaha
00:34 < Aprogas> im a disappointed enthusiast
00:35 < nop> yes
00:35 < bpb> nop: you never answered my question from the meeting btw...
00:35 < nop> and I appreciate your dissapointment
00:35 < nop> which one bpb
00:35 < bpb> nop: since when does IIP get donations?
00:35 < Aprogas> someone who thought it would be possible to resist opression without needing dark basements and information exchanges in the park
00:35 < nop> well they have bpb
00:36 < bpb> nop: since when, how much, etc.? :)
00:36 < bpb> nop: the critics must know ;)
00:36 < Aprogas> nop: i think you still did not tell me when iip 1.1 will be done
00:37 < nop> I can't give that answer until rc3 is released
00:37 < Aprogas> can you give a rough estimate ?
00:37 < Aprogas> or at least tell me when you expect rc3
00:38 < nop> rc3 by friday
00:38 < nop> at worse case
00:38 < Aprogas> so by friday you can give a rough estimate about when iip 1.1 will be done ?
00:38 < nop> yes
00:38 < Aprogas> ok, ill stay until friday then
00:39 < nop> fine with me
00:39 < nop> what do you expect from IIP aprogas
00:39 < nop> and why
00:39 < Aprogas> i dont know what to expect from IIP
00:39 < Aprogas> but i can try to analyse what i expect from it
00:40 < Aprogas> i think i expect IIP to be a certain `medium' which i can use to say anything i would like without having feelings of fear along with saying those things
00:40 < Aprogas> but i think i also expect IIP to have a somewhat professional, or at least organised, character
00:41 < Aprogas> probably because i would have more trust in the application if that would be the case
00:41 < nop> I can't demand professionals unless I can pay them
00:41 < Aprogas> you can act like a professional
00:41 < nop> since people like you choose not to donate substantial amounts of money, and only your criticism it will be hard
00:41 < Aprogas> i dont enjoy criticism
00:42 < Aprogas> and i would love the develop if i didnt think the development team was an unorganised bunch of people
00:42 < nop> it's not unorganized
00:42 < nop> it's quite organized
00:42 < Aprogas> it seems to be
00:42 < nop> it's just not the way you want it
00:42  * Debolaz whispers to the developers next to him: "Don't take it personally.. someday, you'll be a real live boy"
00:42 < Aprogas> maybe
00:43 < nop> aprogas, if you want to be the leader
00:43 < nop> than that is up to you
00:43 < Aprogas> i dont want to be the leader at all
00:43 < nemesis> hrhr
00:43 < Aprogas> i want to be unknown, because being unknown is safer
00:43 < nop> correct
00:43 < Kyfhon> Dear gods. Aprogas get your head out of your ass. These people are doing this on their own time and letting everyone use it, and you're demanding behavior modification
00:44 < Aprogas> i am just giving these people some advice
00:44 < nemesis> achja, fehlt nur noch ardvark ;)
00:44 < Aprogas> if you make a tool, but if you seem like an unorganised bunch, that will probably repell serious users
00:44 < nop> well, we have serious software that works
00:44 < Aprogas> sure, you'll attract some geeks who can say `look mommy, im now anonymous'
00:44 < nop> and a serious website
00:44 < nop> and we have decent organization
00:44 < Kyfhon> Well your advice was given quite awhile ago. You keep giving the advice repeatedly and thus it looks like demands from my end
00:44 < Aprogas> then why do you hide that ?
00:44 < nop> I think that we have gone farther than a lot of open source projects
00:44 < Aprogas> if you have serious softwar that works, why dont you release it ?
00:45 < nop> you're using it right now
00:45 < Aprogas> it doesnt seem to work well
00:45 < nop> and if you want rc3
00:45 < nop> it's in cvs
00:45 < nop> ready for you
00:45 < nop> and when rc3 is ready for the General audience
00:45 < nop> it will be released
00:45 < Aprogas> my isproxy often complains it cannot reach certain things, and sometimes just vanishes without a trace
00:45 < nemesis> hm.... irgendwie hat er ja recht...
00:45 < nop> probably because someone hated your noc
00:45 < bpb> nop: well, what's the goal of IIP anyway?  And how close is it to reaching that goal?
00:45 < Aprogas> no
00:45 < nemesis> lol
00:45 < Aprogas> it did that before that
00:46 < Aprogas> bpb: the goal of IIP is to be what it is
00:46 < nop> bpb, the goal is obvious
00:46 < nop> if you haven't read the site
00:46 < nop> then I can't help you
00:46 < nop> I'm not going to be long winded
00:46 < nemesis> hm...
00:46 < nop> I am programmed to have a array of 200 characters max per line
00:46 < nop> and I prefer it to be shorter
00:46 < nop> obviously
00:46 < bpb> nop: I've read the sites ever since casper the friendly ghost...
00:46 < nemesis> 200?
00:47 < nop> then you're asking a rhetorical question
00:47 < Aprogas> nop: is the central IIP server reliable ?
00:47 < nop> it hasn't gone down for a very long time
00:47 < nop> it's hosted in a secured facility
00:47 < nemesis> 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
00:47 < bpb> nop: no, I don't believe I am...  maybe I should rephrase...
00:47 < nemesis> thats 200 ^^
00:47 < Aprogas> even before our NOC was destroyed, i got disconnected from IIP at least once a day i think
00:47 < Aprogas> so i wouldnt really call that `software that works'
00:47 < nop> well, you're talking on it now
00:47 < nop> so
00:48 < Aprogas> sure
00:48 < Aprogas> but i want it to be reliable
00:48 < Aprogas> you never know when you are going to need it
00:48 < bpb> nop: why did you start IIP exactly?
00:48 < Aprogas> bpb: to mock his wife
00:48 < nop> because it was cool
00:48 < nop> and i wanted to be cool
00:48 < nop> don't you know
00:48 < nop> I'm in california
00:48 < nop> it's all about cool
00:48 < nemesis> ;)
00:49 < nemesis> and whate are you think about your project at this time? ;)
00:49 < bpb> ...
00:49 < bpb> heh
00:49 < nop> next I'll get breast implants
00:49 < nop> I think it's cool
00:49 < nop> ;)
00:49 < nemesis> hehe ;)
00:49 < bpb> nop: hey, if you're a city employee in SF, free sex change ;)
00:49 < nop> look aprogas, you've made your comments
00:49 < Aprogas> maybe
00:50 < nop> and they are heard
00:50 < nop> and we do our best
00:50 < bpb> nop: butt sex is also cool in california ;)
00:50 < Aprogas> they havent been really said
00:50 < nemesis> why you wan't to limit the max characters to max 200 each per line?
00:50 < Aprogas> its hard to express what exactly i mean
00:50 < Aprogas> its just that everytime i try to do something with anonimity and stuff, it fails
00:50 < Aprogas> its a big disappointment
00:51 < nemesis> thats true..
00:51 < Aprogas> every few months i cvs checkout freenet again, see if it works already
00:51 < Aprogas> then it seems to work, and at the moment i am to share my excitement with others, it breaks into a horrible pit of frustration and agony
00:51 < Aprogas> im afraid IIP is going to be affected by the same curse
00:52 < nop> well aprogas, more comments say IIP works better than freenet
00:52 < nop> but it's a work in progress
00:52 < bpb> If you want to be cool, you just need to let everybody know you're friends with captn crunch... oh wait, you've done that too ;)
00:52 < Aprogas> thats why i still use IIP right now and ditched freenet
00:52 < Kyfhon> Heh ever since freenet 0.5 it takes like 5 minutes to retr something.
00:52 < Aprogas> kyfhon: thats not that bad
00:52 < Aprogas> i can wait 5 minutes
00:52 < Kyfhon> ...With a50% failure rate
00:53 < nemesis> hrhr
00:53 < Aprogas> mm.. maybe i should try freenet again
00:53 < bpb> yeah
00:53 < bpb> 0.4 during a certain era was great
00:53 < Aprogas> is that with the 5xx or 6xx build?
00:53 < Aprogas> most of the time 0.4 was broken
00:53 < Aprogas> and trying to insert something in freenet 0.3 traumatised me
00:53 < bpb> Aprogas: 0.5 is 5xx and 6xx
00:54 < Kyfhon> 0.5.0.6 tarball
00:54 < Aprogas> bpb: thats why im asking where kyfhon gets those decent results
00:54 < Aprogas> but i shouldnt be naive
00:54 < Aprogas> i know its going to faiil
00:54 < Aprogas> because i use kaffe
00:54 < Aprogas> so ill try again later
00:54 < bpb> haha
00:55 < bpb> kaffe works fine with freenet
00:55 < bpb> evil GPL ware
00:55 < Aprogas> nop: i think the problem with the IIP developers team is that they are a bunch of geeks who are coding a program for a bunch of other geeks
00:55 < bpb> anyway...  shouldn't we be talking in #anonymous
00:55 < Aprogas> but it would be nice if IIP would also target different users
00:56 < bpb> Aprogas: umm, what do you think the first computers were, and look at them now ;)
00:56 < Aprogas> users who dont just want to explore the technology of being anonymous, but users who actually need being anonymous
00:56 < Aprogas> the first computers were used in the textile industry i think
00:59 < Rain> they were not really computers, though. more like automats. they could not actually process information, only act on a given program. progammed looms.
01:00 < Aprogas> are there any users on here who arent here just for the kick of being `anonymous' ?
01:00  * Debolaz isn't being anonymous here.
01:00 < Aprogas> debolaz: why are you here ?
01:00 < nemesis> me?
01:01 < Rain> i like the people, and i want to see how it turns out.
01:01 < Aprogas> bla
01:02 < Aprogas> you would whine too if you were in my position
01:02 < Aprogas> you fucking rats
01:02 < Kyfhon> Wah =[
01:02 < nemesis> hrhr
01:02 < mateofree> what was that?!?
01:02 < nemesis> "<Aprogas> you would whine too if you were in my position"
01:02 < nemesis> what he mean with this?
01:03 < Kyfhon> He prolly needs anonymity. Or something.
01:03 < mateofree> I might have an idea for logo
01:03 < mateofree> mind if I throw it out here?
01:04 < Rain> go ahead man..
01:04 < mateofree> ok
01:05 < mateofree> well I thought maybe a head either in profile or from front..
01:05 < mateofree> with one side dissolving into ones and zeros
01:06 < Rain> might look nice, but what is the "iip specific" thing of it?
01:06 < mateofree> hehe don´t know
01:06 < mateofree> hello fw
01:06 < mateofree> the eye is closed btw
01:07 < Fairwitness> the eye?
01:07 < mateofree> so there is some allusion to "invisible" "not seen"
01:07 < mateofree> hehe
01:07 < Rain> hmm, that might work.
01:07 < Kyfhon> Submarine dissolving into (1|0)'s
01:07 < Fairwitness> your talking about a logo?
01:07 < Rain> pehaps a question mark somewhere..
01:07 < mateofree> don´t go anywhere, I will upload it
01:07 < mateofree> I have a scetch
01:08 < mateofree> have to log first
01:08 < mateofree> brb
01:08 < Gilles2Rais> hey about dcc on iip irc, perhaps freenet could be used
01:09 < Kyfhon> It would take years to send a file :>
01:09 < Gilles2Rais> hum not really !!
01:09 < Kyfhon> Well, not _that_ long
01:09 < Gilles2Rais> a irc command could be used for trading the key
01:09 < Kyfhon> Might as well just give out refs
01:10 < Gilles2Rais> simulating a dcc
01:10 < Rain> does anyone know if there is any project 
01:10 < Rain> to make a native freenet node implementation?
01:10 < Kyfhon> That would be nice
01:11 < Rain> the last one died, but now that 0.5 is actually released
01:11 < Kyfhon> Isn't there a java compiler that outputs native bins?
01:11 < Rain> yeah, but i belive i read that there was some misc trouble with it
01:11 < Rain> ie, the process is not perfect
01:11 < Kyfhon> Hm
01:15  * Kyfhon has to scram
01:17 < mateofree> check here: http://briefcase.yahoo.com/mateo_freeman
01:18 < mateofree> in IIP sketch folder
01:20 < Fairwitness> What's this image proposed for Mateo?
01:20 < mateofree> IIP logo
01:20 < mateofree> just an idea I got
01:20 < mateofree> just now
01:21 < Fairwitness> can you explain the image?
01:21 < mateofree> well, it is a head either in profile or from front, with closed eye
01:21 < mateofree> and one side dissolves into ones and zeros
01:22 < Fairwitness> ahhh.. I could see that it was disolving but not what into
01:22 < mateofree> oh, well I did it fast so...
01:22 < mateofree> just to get the idea out, hehe
01:23 < mateofree> don´t know if it is proper though
01:23 < mateofree> might be too ambigous
01:24 < mateofree> might work though as a t shirt logo though
01:24 < mateofree> a little one on chest or somethign
01:24 < Fairwitness> might be a bit detailed for a tshiort
01:24 < Fairwitness> I think it is a great idea and woudl love to see you develop it. 
01:24 < mateofree> well, I was thinking of simplyfying it
01:25 < mateofree> with more clean lines
01:25 < Fairwitness> Kool. 
01:25 < mateofree> I kind of like the profle one
01:25 < mateofree> profile
01:25 < Fairwitness> that's much better for screen printing...
01:26 < mateofree> yes
01:26 < mateofree> maybe something with lines, as in that picture is better than ones and zeros
01:26 < mateofree> might be too small to see
01:26 < mateofree> ones and zeros that is
01:27 < Fairwitness> I lik ethe fading to 1's and 0's idea...
01:28 < mateofree> yes.. but would maybe be to small for something like t shirt?
01:28 < mateofree> the "point" is though the shut eye
01:28 < mateofree> that is what ties to invisible
01:30 < Rain> i actually like the sound of that. simple enought. together with the "iip" text, it will be pretty obvious, even to a non techie. they might not now what a "proxy" is, but "invisible" and "net" should be prettey obvious.
01:31 < Rain> heh, a "closed eye" is kinda the opposite of the "lidless eye" from LOTR...
01:31 < mateofree> hehe
01:32 < mateofree> hmm, maybe an open eye over a pyramid might be better..... ;)
01:33 < Rain> hmm, that seems kinda familiar....
01:33 < Gilles2Rais> hu my job is graphism and 3d so if u need ...
01:33 < mateofree> cool
01:33 < Rain> (note to self: learn to spell)
01:33 < Gilles2Rais> u could find my gallery at :
01:33 < Gilles2Rais> (just wait :)
01:33 < mateofree> what programs du you use?
01:33 < mateofree> for 3d
01:34 < Rain> can you accentuate the closed eye, make the face look "calm"?
01:34 < Gilles2Rais> http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Y&Artist=delly
01:34 < Gilles2Rais> im using rhino for modelling
01:34 < Rain> in the the current scetch he looks to be somewhat in pain ;)
01:34 < mateofree> wow cool
01:34 < Gilles2Rais> render with pov bmrt or lightwave
01:34 < mateofree> I owbn rhino too
01:34 < Gilles2Rais> or flamingo 
01:34 < Gilles2Rais> rhino is soooooo cool
01:34 < Gilles2Rais> the best for me
01:35 < mateofree> yeah
01:35 < Gilles2Rais> and im using only one
01:35 < Gilles2Rais> rhino
01:35 < mateofree> I used to do 3d some years ago
01:35 < Gilles2Rais> have u and url where I could see the actual logo
01:35 < mateofree> also used truespace
01:35 < Gilles2Rais> yes ive tried it
01:35 < Gilles2Rais> ive luv the cinema 4d rendering too
01:36 < Gilles2Rais> actually for fast done animation I prefer moray 303
01:36 < Gilles2Rais> and lightwave for not fast done :)
01:36 < mateofree> oh btw did you see my post on dc?
01:36 < mateofree> about 3d plugin to 3dmax
01:37 < mateofree> http://www.eyematic.com/products_facestation.html
01:37 < mateofree> now that is cool
01:37 < Gilles2Rais> have u  try brazil ?
01:37 < mateofree> nope, what is that?
01:37 < Gilles2Rais> woo I luv it too but all tried beta was so bugged
01:37 < Gilles2Rais> the better render engine
01:38 < Gilles2Rais> (for me :)
01:38 < mateofree> cool
01:38 < mateofree> hehe
01:38 < Gilles2Rais> splutterfish.com
01:38 < Gilles2Rais> I guess
01:38 < Gilles2Rais> Video In. Facial Animation Out. It's That Simple.
01:38 < Gilles2Rais> its ur artcile
01:38 < mateofree> snow desert was very cool
01:38 < Gilles2Rais> article
01:38 < mateofree> what program did you use for it?
01:38 < mateofree> cool
01:39 < Gilles2Rais> dont know this
01:39 < Gilles2Rais> http://www.neilblevins.com/artgallery/gallery_brazil.htm
01:40 < Gilles2Rais> see and cry :)
01:40 < Gilles2Rais> http://splutterfish.com/sf/Images/img_c02_glassc.jpg
01:40 < mateofree> your gallery was very cool
01:40 < Gilles2Rais> thx
01:40 < Gilles2Rais> but it seems lots pictures are 404 :(
01:41 < Gilles2Rais> I luv this http://splutterfish.com/sf/Images/img_c06_delphipaw_marbles_on_rails_DOF3-3.jpg
01:41 < mateofree> wow!
01:41 < mateofree> that was very cool
01:42 < mateofree> brb
01:43 < mateofree> back
01:44 < mateofree> what I really like about rhino and truespace is price
01:44 < mateofree> very good price/value
01:44 < Gilles2Rais> yep true
01:44 < Gilles2Rais> so much features
01:45 < mateofree> yeah
01:45 < Gilles2Rais> have u try flamingo too ?
01:45 < mateofree> truespace is amazing
01:45 < mateofree> nope
01:45 < Gilles2Rais> its great and too easy to use materials
01:45 < mateofree> only have rhino 1. something and truespace 4. something 
01:45 < Gilles2Rais> but slow
01:45 < mateofree> haven´t used them in years
01:45 < Gilles2Rais> truespace have nice render and seems fast
01:46 < Fairwitness> Sorry to split in the middle of a conv Mateo but I had to get the phone..
01:46 < Gilles2Rais> rhino 3 beta is available
01:46 < mateofree> I like that truespace is a complete package
01:46 < Fairwitness> I agree with the previous commment that the face looks quite unhappy.
01:46 < mateofree> hehe np fw
01:46 < mateofree> ofcourse it is unhappy, having to hide away from the statists, hehe
01:46 < Gilles2Rais> have u and url I could see the actuall iip logo
01:46 < Fairwitness> Do either of you have PalmS?
01:47 < Fairwitness> PDA's that is?
01:47 < mateofree> nope
01:47 < mateofree> gilles du you mean:  http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip/
01:47 < mateofree> or my example?
01:48 < Fairwitness> bummer :) 
01:48 < Fairwitness> I have a palm addiction... I found an excellent drawing program for Plam OS
01:48 < Fairwitness> I LOVE your gallery Gilles2Rais!!
01:48 < mateofree> cool
01:48 < mateofree> the palms are really cool
01:49 < Fairwitness> I use it a lot as it is great t be able to have coloured drawing tools wherever I go 
01:49 < Fairwitness> and it can print the images at ANY size with no loss of quality as it is vector based
01:49 < mateofree> yeah I bet
01:50 < mateofree> I have a wacom drawing tablet, very cool
01:50 < Gilles2Rais> I need it
01:50 < Gilles2Rais> but my mouse is terrible :)
01:50 < mateofree> I guess palm is kind of like it
01:50 < mateofree> hehe
01:50 < Fairwitness> I nearly bought one of them...
01:50 < mateofree> yeah drawing witgh mouse is ipossible for me
01:50 < Fairwitness> but I bought a film scanner instead
01:51 < Fairwitness> I don't do a lot of drawing.. mostly photos.
01:51 < Fairwitness> and retouching is ok with a mouse... but a tblet woud be better
01:51 < mateofree> yeah
01:51 < mateofree> it is pretty amazing really
01:52 < mateofree> you think it might be weird but it is very intuitive
01:52 < Fairwitness> I will console myself with the fact that I LOVE my film scanner :0
01:52 < Fairwitness> though now i have got a digital camera...
01:53 < mateofree> hehe what model is it?
01:53 < mateofree> oh yeah an ixus right?
01:53 < mateofree> those are cool
01:53 < Fairwitness> I know this probably sounds silly but I didn;t get a tablet because i just have no more desk space
01:53 < Fairwitness> yeah
01:53 < Fairwitness> it is ok for stuff to go on the web
01:53 < mateofree> lol
01:53 < Fairwitness> but big prints are a bit suboptimal
01:54 < mateofree> yeah
01:54 < Fairwitness> nothing like film for resolution..
01:54 < Fairwitness> but I am OVER the chemicals.
01:54 < mateofree> well.....
01:54 < Fairwitness> I will soon be putting up the kipbetbot page whic has some nice shots on it...
01:54 < mateofree> price is a bit to high right now but there are very good alternatives
01:55 < mateofree> for digital cams
01:55 < Fairwitness> true, but I am waiting... I think there will be a big jump in quality soon.
01:55 < mateofree> for about 2000 dollars you can get a digital cam as good as 35mm film
01:55 < mateofree> yeah
01:55 < Fairwitness> and I want one of the decents lens makers to come up with an really goood digital camera...
01:56 < Fairwitness> ...but lenses...?
01:56 < mateofree> oh the proffesional ones are compatible with standard lenses
01:56 < Fairwitness> resolution on the screen is nice... but oyu need the lenses ot get good images to utilise the high res
01:56 < Fairwitness> still too expensive though..
01:57 < mateofree> yeah
01:57 < mateofree> but if trends are going as lately it will be cheap soon
01:57 < Fairwitness> anyway I am supposed ot be working... gotta go...
01:57 < mateofree> ok bye
01:58 < Fairwitness> I hope so.. I'm counting on prices falling ...
01:58 < Fairwitness> see you later
01:58 < mateofree> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/d60/d60.shtml
01:58 < mateofree> save that for later
01:58 < mateofree> good review of canon d60
02:30 < Gilles2Rais> cya all
07:14 -!- Topic for #iip-dev: IIP meeting | logs: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/ | sneak rc3 preview for unix http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/iip-1.1-rc3-mids1.tgz | please give feedback
07:14 [Users #iip-dev]
07:14 [ CwZ|away] [ epoch        ] [ jeremiah] [ nemesis] [ ptm ] [ UserX] 
07:14 [ Debolaz2] [ icepick-work_] [ logger  ] [ pox    ] [ ptsc] 
07:14 -!- Irssi: #iip-dev: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
07:14 -!- Irssi: Join to #iip-dev was synced in 2 secs
08:45  * nemesis is away: sleeps
--- Log closed Wed Nov 27 10:49:36 2002