21:02:22 Alright, I'm going to go ahead and start the meeting. 21:02:29 0) Say hi 21:02:29 1) Feeds progress 21:02:29 2) JUnit hackfest summary 21:02:29 3) discussion of Syndie progress and where we are going with that 21:02:29 4) Suggestions for future hackfests 21:02:29 5) PR manager nomination 21:02:32 6) 0.9.4 progress 21:02:35 7) Website revamp 21:02:38 0) Say hi 21:02:38 Hi! 21:03:06 Hi! 21:03:49 hi :) 21:06:50 Anyone else? 21:08:58 The "hi"s have it. 21:09:05 1) Feeds progress 21:09:35 This will be short. 21:10:51 The feeds work is getting close, but I won't have it ready for 0.9.5 unfortunately - too many little things that need tidying up (user notifications etc.) as well as some not-so-little things (re-working the /home design, specifically how categories are presented to the user). 21:11:55 woah 21:11:58 I goth ere in time 21:11:58 And I'd rather push it to the next release than release it in its current state, since I want users to have a good first impression of it =) 21:12:05 I thought I'd missed you guys 21:12:15 dg: we started an hour late, FYI =P 21:12:15 dg: Nope, still here. 21:12:23 \o 21:13:38 So, any feedback, comments and suggestions for the feeds work would be greatly appreciated, but it's not urgently required before the 0.9.5 release. 21:14:37 Anyone have any points to raise on this topic before we move on? 21:14:53 No. 21:15:51 I don't, if zzz is here, he might? 21:17:23 We can come back to this at the end if necessary. 21:17:26 Next: 21:17:26 2) JUnit hackfest summary 21:17:57 Anyone else here who participated? zzz? topiltzin? KillYourTV? 21:18:55 yup, went well, the 4 of us all hacked away, and zab fought to the end until they all passed. First time in years, or maybe ever. 21:19:22 Kudos to zab for that. 21:20:04 And as a result we now have a Jenkins service run by kytv which will hopefully keep us in check ^_^ 21:21:47 Next step there is to expand our code coverage (which Jenkins also monitors) with moar tests. 21:22:06 Not much else to say here, so: 21:22:09 kytv: you running sonar as well? 21:22:14 3) discussion of Syndie progress and where we are going with that 21:23:08 zzz and eche|on have started the Syndie hackfest - how bad is it looking? =P 21:23:39 going well, need more people to test, code, or make suggestions, but we have several dozen checkins in the last few days 21:24:01 suggest people try the latest version in mtn, they will find a lot of fixes 21:24:32 * str4d plans to pull the branch in the next day or so and have a look 21:24:32 but the point here is to recruit somebody to work on it steadily. It needs a lot of work 21:25:50 One of the points I recall from the TODO was a big-picture question: where are we heading/do we want to go with Syndie? 21:27:11 As in? Development wise? Popularity wise? 21:27:54 Both probably. 21:28:29 What needs to happen to reach its original goals? What were those goals? Do they still make sense? 21:29:13 This sort of thing would be good to outline on the Syndie bounty. 21:29:23 Popularity wise: get Syndie at least considered alongside "anonymous publishing" tools (I don't know if there even are any apart from Freenet?) 21:29:35 If we get to that point, we're doing well 21:29:49 (Since then people can look at the bounty and actually get a feel for what is required) 21:29:52 The goals are on the site, I believe. At least the use cases which sort of explained.. 21:30:19 Useful links for reviewing the original goals: 21:30:22 http://www.i2p2.i2p/status-2006-09-12.html 21:30:22 http://www.i2p2.i2p/status-2006-10-03.html 21:30:29 Title: I2P Status Notes for 2006-09-12 - I2P (at www.i2p2.i2p) 21:30:33 Title: I2P Status Notes for 2006-10-03 - I2P (at www.i2p2.i2p) 21:31:36 dg: then it would be good to review the Syndie site and update it. 21:31:58 in the hackfest we're just fixing obvious problems. But hopefully the fest will attract new users and devs with ideas. 21:33:16 PR will help in that respect (which we will get to shortly). 21:34:21 Would it be a good idea to create a ticket for reviewing the Syndie docs/goals/bounty etc. to ensure they are current? 21:35:07 I'd say so 21:36:37 dg: could you do that? =) 21:37:05 * dg nods 21:37:08 And does anyone have anything else to add to this topic at present? 21:37:11 Thanks 21:39:35 no. 21:41:07 zzz: any other comments before we move on? 21:41:34 Aside from "Get hacking on Syndie NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!" ;P 21:43:41 Oh - why is syndie.i2p not up? 21:43:44 welterde? 21:43:51 (Or whoever runs it) 21:43:57 syndie.i2p2.de is up. 21:44:48 * KillYourTV guesses it was jrandom's. 21:45:31 Mmm, probably. In which case it would be worth setting up syndie.i2p2.i2p 21:45:58 (I recall seeing syndie.i2p in the I2P docs, so that needs changing at some point) 21:46:41 I don't think syndie has an eepsite...(yet) 21:47:16 It has a clearnet site... 21:48:00 hell...the most recently downloads are from 2007, other than my Debian packages or the plugin versions. 21:48:03 I don't think many (other than mosfet, darrob, echelon, and I) have cared about syndie for a long time (which is why there's the hackfest!!!!!!!11111onetyelven) 21:49:54 Okay, meeting will move on for now, we can revisit this if needed. 21:50:05 4) Suggestions for future hackfests 21:51:17 weltende: not familiar with sonar but i'll look into it. maybe I can handle that too... 21:51:32 So, what other hackfest ideas do we have? 21:56:17 me too! 21:56:36 So, what other hackfest ideas do we have? 21:58:32 Things that we have on the boiler at present: 21:58:35 I2P itself 21:58:35 Syndie 21:58:42 Android port 21:58:49 Website 21:59:54 Anything within those that might be deserving of a hackfest? 22:00:05 (Anything I've missed?) 22:01:14 str4d: Is the protocol spec something hackable? 22:07:25 orion: you mean the docs for it? 22:07:48 If the documentation is unclear then that is something worth considering. 22:08:03 Especially as we now have someone trying to use it to replicate a compatible I2P =) 22:08:34 str4d: I meant actually modifying the protocol. 22:08:45 orion: that, not so much. 22:08:53 zzz can elaborate more. 22:09:09 It depends on what protocol you are referring to though. 22:10:00 Upgrading crypto mainly. 22:10:00 Existing protocols (SSU, NTCP, I2CP, I2NP etc.) should ideally be backwards compatible, so a hackfest on them is probably counter-productive as any changes need to be carefully considered. 22:10:35 Ah yes. That is certainly something worth considering, especially before you get too far along with i2pcpp 22:10:54 Again, probably not hackfest-worthy, but it's something that we should probably dedicate some time to. 22:11:05 ok 22:11:23 btw http://trac.i2p2.i2p/ticket/840 22:11:27 Title: #840 (Review Syndie site) – I2P (at trac.i2p2.i2p) 22:11:47 * str4d tables the motion that the next meeting (or maybe the one after) be a crypto review meeting. 22:12:39 I agree 22:12:50 o/ 22:13:10 /o 22:13:41 zzz? KillYourTV? welterde? 22:14:29 We'll want it to be a meeting that the people with the most knowledge of I2P's crypto can attend (so definitely zzz and zab) 22:16:32 str4d: ah.. crypto.. I'll be there.. when? *fetches calender* 22:17:02 Next week? 22:17:05 Same time? 22:17:48 welterde, I'm proposing either the next meeting or the one after (so Tues Jan 15 or 22, 20:00 UTC) but if another time suits you/zzz/zab/etc better... 22:22:57 * str4d has just emailed zab to ask about his availability. 22:24:08 s/just emailed zab/is attempting to email zab (and waiting on postman's SMTP to respond >_<) 22:26:17 * str4d waits for welterde to finish checking his calender 22:26:32 str4d: already noted ;) 22:27:04 Okay, so the currently-proposed time is Tues Jan 15, 20:00 UTC. 22:27:23 * str4d will make a zzz.i2p post about it 22:27:26 Next: 22:27:29 5) PR manager nomination 22:27:36 orion: you're up! 22:27:47 (Finally ^_^) 22:29:26 yay 22:32:30 What is the role of the PR manager position? 22:32:33 formally. 22:33:00 "PR manager: press contact, manages public relations and affairs" 22:33:10 (from /team) 22:34:51 So the person who gets I2P known, handles interview/article requests, organizes I2P appearances... that sort of thing, I'd imaging. 22:34:54 I can be a press contact. I like speaking in front of public audiences. 22:34:57 imagine* 22:35:39 It needs to be someone who can IRL. 22:35:50 I can meet press/media IRL. 22:35:53 Also, general i2p public face for things we need would be helpful.. 22:35:53 I don't mind that. 22:36:03 (GSoC for one, if Google demand) 22:36:17 dg: good point there. 22:36:48 I know that mentors don't have to be public, but Google does require a single person to be the main point of contact. 22:36:48 Interviews, all that stuff sounds good. The one thing I am not good at though is media stuff (making flyers, etc) 22:37:36 I don't mind being a main point of contact -- organizing I2P appearances I can do, so long as you guys tell me about them. Hell, if they're in the area I can go IRL. 22:37:39 orion: making flyers etc. isn't technically part of the job - it would be to organize flyers etc. getting made (which themselves would be done by a designer) 22:37:58 Ahh 22:38:13 eche already has a competition running to get some leaflets, banners etc. designed. 22:38:20 Ok. 22:38:23 So e.g. the PR manager could promote that competition. 22:38:30 (To get a wider variety of entries) 22:38:55 For me, it's showing people that i2p is more than a few people hiding with no face at all 22:39:01 However you wish to do that 22:39:08 Talks, interviews, whatever, it's all good 22:39:15 Right. 22:39:15 Something I've wondered - what about posting a/the competition on a freelance design website? To get more exposure. 22:40:06 If people reach out to me, I have no problem talking to them. 22:40:52 I can even show up to events if they are in the area. 22:41:03 (New Hampshire) 22:41:06 Mind if I ask the area? 22:41:06 - 22:41:07 haha 22:41:39 There is a train that goes directly to Boston though. 22:42:14 One event that would be good to get people to is http://wiki.openitp.org/events:techno-activism_3rd_mondays 22:42:22 Title: events:techno-activism_3rd_mondays [OpenITP Wiki] (at wiki.openitp.org) 22:44:58 orion: FWIW, as PR manager, the page/subpages on the website (revamp) http://vekw35szhzysfq7cwsly37coegsnb4rrsggy5k4wtasa6c34gy5a.b32.i2p/en/about/media would basically be under your jurisdiction. 22:45:05 Title: Presentations on I2P - I2P (at vekw35szhzysfq7cwsly37coegsnb4rrsggy5k4wtasa6c34gy5a.b32.i2p) 22:45:22 I will accept the PR role, but I am a poor college kid. 22:45:49 I can't afford to go to too many events. 22:46:16 orion: talk to eche|on - there's always a possibility of funding. 22:46:27 Ok. 22:46:38 And as a PR manager, you may end up drumming up additional funding anyway =D 22:47:13 I accept the position, and I will relinquish the position if I feel I am not up to it. 22:47:41 You can't be expected to detract from your own RL work of course, but we do appreciate your assistance. And you won't be acting alone. 22:48:15 That sounds great. assistance would definitely be appreciated. 22:50:40 * str4d updates the website 22:52:03 And done! Welcome (officially) to the team orion =D 22:52:18 Yay! 22:52:29 (Though if being on the /team page makes it official, then I'm not technically an official team member =P) 22:53:40 Okay, moving on to the last couple of topics: 22:53:43 6) 0.9.4 progress 22:53:43 IRL is evil. 22:53:43 How are we looking at present? We are over the halfway mark for the usual 6-week release period. 22:54:06 s/0.9.4 progress/0.9.5 progress/ 22:54:09 str4d meant: 6) 0.9.5 progress 22:55:49 As outlined in topic 1) the feeds work won't be ready for 0.9.5. 22:58:32 I'm not sure if this is an inappropriate time to ask, but is the Android i2p still in development? Or is that not an 'official' thing? 22:59:16 primal: yes it is. zzz has an old stable version (0.9.1) but sponge has been working on the latest stuff. 22:59:23 Current release: 0.9.1-0_b1-API8 http://zzz.i2p/topics/949 | Current dev build: 0.9.3-5_b2-API8 http://sponge.i2p/ (scan/click QR code) 22:59:38 Title: SPONGE (at sponge.i2p) 22:59:58 sponge is also working on getting the normal Oracle JVM working on Android though, so stock I2P could potentially be used. 23:00:27 str4d: hmm, I ought to get ahold of him, I'd be interested in working on this. 23:01:12 primal: talk to sponge, and see #i2p-android-dev 23:01:12 And, yay! 23:02:01 So, no feedback on 0.9.5 progress? 23:04:59 If not, then on to the last defined topic: 23:04:59 7) Website revamp 23:05:03 http://vekw35szhzysfq7cwsly37coegsnb4rrsggy5k4wtasa6c34gy5a.b32.i2p/en/ 23:05:14 Ticket #807 outlines my progress. 23:05:26 http://trac.i2p2.i2p/ticket/807 - (accepted enhancement) - Revamp of website 23:05:30 Just slipping this in, we're doing better thanks to the bug fix in 0.9.4 for network capacity. http://stats.i2p/cgi-bin/avg.cgi?a=tunnel.buildSuccess.60m&s=93&u=q 23:05:38 The estimated router count has gone up which implies better connectivity to zzz's router? 23:06:01 If we look at 6 months though, we're still not doing as good 23:06:12 anyway, sorry to hijack. :p 23:06:19 dg: yes, good that you mentioned that 23:06:26 The new site is far far superior 23:07:21 First point: I have changed the content of the left column (as per ticket #792 ) - thoughts? 23:07:24 http://trac.i2p2.i2p/ticket/792 - (assigned task) - Replace left column content 23:09:00 Second point - at the bottom of #807 I have suggested some URL changes, which I would like feedback on. Another one is /lang/about/media vs /lang/media ? 23:10:39 ugh 23:11:03 str4d: Is http://vekw35szhzysfq7cwsly37coegsnb4rrsggy5k4wtasa6c34gy5a.b32.i2p/en/ supposed to show the new design? 23:11:10 Title: I2P Anonymous Network (at vekw35szhzysfq7cwsly37coegsnb4rrsggy5k4wtasa6c34gy5a.b32.i2p) 23:11:10 Third point: http://trac.i2p2.i2p/ticket/807#comment:12 lists several content-related issues that need resolving, but I'm not that great at writing content. Assistance here would be greatly appreciated. 23:11:13 errr nvm. Had a complaint about links going to clearnet sites and being unmarked, then I realised this is to be the i2p clearnet homepage :P 23:11:16 Title: #807 (Revamp of website) – I2P (at trac.i2p2.i2p) 23:11:20 orion: it shows one of the new designs. 23:11:43 But the design itself is not finalized yet. 23:11:46 Ahh. How do you alternate between them? 23:12:01 orion: look in the footer 23:12:13 str4d: I can help with writing, it's what I do. What needs fixing? 23:12:20 Firefox doesn't like the footer. 23:12:20 "Duck" is the default, "danimoth" is another proposal I found, the others are from the old site. 23:12:30 primal: see comment 12 as above. 23:12:37 orion: I have no issues with FF17 23:12:40 str4d: indeed, checking now 23:13:11 primal: re: clearnet links, this site will be the I2P-internal site as well. 23:13:23 So your point about marking clearnet links is a good one - examples? 23:13:54 * str4d already has added logic so that I2P-internal sites get rewritten when viewed on the clearnet (to either their clearnet URLs if known, or to an inproxy). 23:14:25 http://i.imgur.com/PwDF8.png 23:14:29 Why is Research under Volunteer instead of About? 23:14:33 It might just require adding a CSS class to any external links so they can be specifically outlined or something. 23:14:52 I went and looked under 'About' first, and would if I was someone wanting to see 'hey, has this been TESTED? Can I trust it?' 23:15:30 primal: because I'm intending that page to be more aimed at researchers wanting to test I2P, but that is a good point. 23:15:37 Ahh okay 23:15:55 Stuff under the "About" menu (to me) is about existing stuff, rather than potential developments. 23:16:06 So maybe the Papers link should be moved back into the about menu. 23:16:37 * str4d already split off the papers page from the presentations, tutoruals etc (which is now the media page) 23:16:52 tutorial 23:16:55 * 23:17:20 orion: oh - that's because the old site doesn't have a footer. 23:17:23 I'd agree. A fellow at my local hackerspace who works on Tor actually asked me for that info once and I didn't know where to point him 23:17:30 having it clearly available would be good 23:18:05 And I'm not a designer, so I haven't been playing with the old CSS much - I just got it mostly-migrated over to show how the new structure and layout fits into the old clothing. 23:18:20 * str4d moves the Papers link now. 23:18:54 str4d (see image) 23:19:56 orion: yes, I looked at it - that's the theme from the current website, and I didn't add footer CSS to it. The two more modern themes (duck's and danimoth's) have footer CSS. 23:21:14 str4d: I would put the academic papers under 'Presentations, Tutorials, and Articles' 23:21:34 primal: under it as in position-wise, or as a sub-menu? 23:21:37 Unless you want to emphasise them highly themselves 23:21:52 * str4d split off Papers from that page, and isn't about to merge them back =P 23:22:15 Hmm... 23:22:26 * str4d put the link under "Comparisons" for now. 23:22:45 above them position wise. 'Academic Papers and Peer Review' perhaps 23:23:59 the content is quite mixed there already 23:24:33 christoph: I'd prefer to amalgamate the content, but str4d said he isn't about to merge stuff ;) 23:25:00 I'm just saying, anyone who is *seriously* looking at I2P for security reasons will want to focus on the academic / peer review. 23:25:11 primal: my point is, it's merged on the current site - I split it off because I felt that academic papers deserved their own page with their own layout. 23:25:21 hm it's actually mostly fine now, /me seems to remember lots of different stuff mixed 23:25:31 I wouldn't trust software to protect me from getting killed/legal issues/etc without being able to read up on it 23:25:50 so basically probably I was remembering before str4d splitof 23:25:53 str4d: I agree. As said, I'd recommend adding an 'Academic Papers and Peer Review' section under about for them 23:25:53 primal: see http://www.i2p2.i2p/papers for the "old" version. 23:25:57 Title: Papers and Presentations on I2P - I2P (at www.i2p2.i2p) 23:26:12 primal: refresh the page to see my shift for now 23:26:19 But that's a good title. 23:26:22 ok 23:27:01 Looks good. 23:27:16 Title changed locally - should I shift it further down that menu as well? Or rearrange the rest of the menu 23:27:19 ? 23:27:42 Shift it down under 'Hall of Fame' imo 23:27:57 just above presentations and articles 23:28:35 Mmm, I like that. Pushing... 23:29:37 Any other comments? Does the front-page as a whole look okay? Does the left-hand column content work? 23:30:12 well 23:30:42 grammatically the second paragraph isn't quite right ;) 23:32:28 "I2P is used by many people who care about their privacy, as well as those in high-risk situations. It is ideal for activists, oppressed people, journalists and whistle-blowers." 23:33:09 Or perhaps... "I2P is used by many people who care about their privacy, as well as those in high-risk situations. It can benefit a wide range of people, such as activists, oppressed people, journalists and whistle-blowers." 23:33:17 That second paragraph is a compact version of what used to take up that entire column (which I didn't like on its own - too much like the Tor site) 23:33:33 or even 'It can provide a secure method of communication for activists...' etc 23:34:12 The main div already talks about secure communication 23:35:12 I2P is used by many people who care about their privacy, as well as those in high-risk situations. It is designed to protect activists, oppressed people, journalists and whistle-blowers - as well as the average person." 23:35:45 eh, I'm just tossing stuff out here. Anyhow, the sentence does need to be grammatically corrected and is a bit of a run-on, but I'm nit-picking ;) Generally it's fine 23:36:17 I like that last one =) 23:36:58 yeah me too. 23:37:10 "I2P is a full darknet implementation - a network within a network, unmonitorable by your ISP or government." - thoughts? 23:37:45 That was taken from the Trac wiki page, and I think it's about as technical as you'd want to get on the front page. 23:38:15 Well, it is quite a definitive claim 23:38:23 As zzz has said before, we want to carefully consider exactly what is said on the front page, as that will be important for SEO as well as it being what the users first see. 23:38:30 but if we're comfortable with that, ok :) 23:38:50 Yeah... the first two "statements" are true enough, but the last is debatable. 23:38:57 perhaps 'intended to be unmonitorable by...' 23:39:12 i.e that's the plan, 23:39:41 That makes it sound like it isn't yet ^_^ 23:39:52 hmm 23:39:59 * primal tries to think of a better phrasing 23:40:38 I'd go with 'desgined to be' but I dislike repeating the same term and if you go with my other paragraph 2, it'd be repeated. 23:40:45 The column links to about/intro as well, so that is likely where new users will head first. 23:41:08 'created to be unmonitorable' perhaps? 23:41:44 (So about/intro will need work as well) 23:41:48 I can guarantee that it's monitor-able but it takes a lot of effort 23:42:15 it's privacy/security through obfuscation 23:42:15 right but the INTENT is for it not to be monitorable. I'd go with 'created to be unmonitorable' 23:42:50 h2ik: obfuscation? Not encryption? 23:42:53 or perhaps something like "designed to prevent monitoring" 23:43:08 str4d: well there is both but I can deduce end points 23:43:15 str4d: and if you want to get devious you could run an outproxy :-) 23:43:22 h2ik, how so? 23:43:33 h2ik: yeah, but I used 'designed to be' in the next paragraph. It's just grammatically tacky to repeat the term ;) 23:43:45 let's not make promises we can't keep. 23:43:56 ioerror spoke about this, it's dangerous 23:43:56 Also, we should distinguish between being able to monitor the I2P network itself, and being able to monitor network traffic wihin it. 23:43:59 within* 23:44:06 which is ultimately my point there dg so thanks for getting me there faster 23:44:10 dg++ 23:44:29 "Created to provide security from monitoring by...." 23:44:43 It is extremely EXTREMELY dangerous and potentially fatal for us to say we can keep someone safe and that they are entirely safe from an adversary. However, we can tell them what we can protect against *as well as* our goals. 23:44:46 or 'protection from monitoring by...' 23:44:49 primal: how about intended to make monitoring difficult or some such ? 23:45:04 It's okay to say our goals and that's important for inspiring some people to use i2p, actually. It's a base for a secure internet. 23:45:16 +1 dg 23:45:19 dg: yep. 23:45:24 The flow I see for a new user is: 23:45:47 (sorry didn't mean to jump in on the discussion... just wandered by for the meeting) 23:45:50 Front page -> about/i2p (either via the Read more... link or the About menu) -> other information. 23:45:50 h2ik: hmm "and is intended to protect against monitoring by third parties, such as hostile governments or ISPs' 23:46:00 h2ik, you're more than welcome to =) 23:46:19 primal: I like that.. 23:46:38 dg: yeah, that's why I asked about it, it seems to basically be promising more than we could be sure of delivering on. 23:46:57 str4d: "I2P is a full darknet implementation - a network within a network, and is intended to protect against monitoring by third parties, such as hostile governments or ISPs." 23:47:52 primal: sounds good. 23:48:03 +1 primal 23:48:58 As long as we're not saying something which says "we make sure you can't get killed by your gov for using i2p!", we're on the right lines 23:49:18 yep and it keeps us from having to a disclaimer like Anomos has 23:49:34 Anomos = ? 23:49:41 "PS. we're faster than freenet" 23:49:44 disclaimers are no btw 23:49:47 http://anomos.info/ 23:49:50 Title: Anomos (at anomos.info) 23:49:54 encrypted torrent thingy 23:50:05 Disclaimers are like "yeah man we do this for kicks but we're not promisin' nothin', maybe you'll be safe, maybe you won't" 23:50:12 there's no confidence at all 23:50:15 yup thats why I'm not a fan of them 23:50:31 many of the devs and team are passionate people and it's more than just something which may or may not help you not get killed 23:51:50 dg: I'm in agreement. No arguments from me on that count :) Heck, I'm just a user who likes his privacy, that's why I'm here. I haven't got an (overly) hostile government. But what I do online is still none of their business. 23:52:55 I just think this is a project that benefits EVERYONE in general. And I want to do what I can to make sure it succeeds :) 23:53:06 primal: I'm not oppressed but I want to help people who are. I'm the same! I want to make i2p better though, and we're all in agreement on that. As long as our website reflects that, we're golden. 23:53:13 +1 23:53:26 dg: precisely :) 23:54:01 The community feeling should be reflected. The active IRC and people here are a DEFINITE strong point. 23:54:28 dg: we need someone to advocate the point of the users of I2p imo, cause that's who makes it work ultimately 23:54:39 but I'm getting a bit off topic there :D 23:54:42 Okay, text on front page updated. 23:54:49 str4d: awesome/ 23:54:52 heh :D 23:54:55 primal: and those users are also the reason we are in business 23:55:10 h2ik: hey I'm one of them and so I agree 23:55:25 str4d: whistle-blowers is hyphenated :P lol 23:55:36 * primal nitpicks! ;) 23:55:40 Whoops =P 23:55:48 rofl 23:56:03 as for anomos, meh. Kind of dangerous to have something only for BitTorrent too.. if you can fingerprint it, you can say "bam, bittorrent", maybe you can just say that all BitTorrent is bad and then goodbye anomos 23:57:18 Only looked at the site briefly though, I cannot judge. 23:57:55 As much as I like this discussion, getting back onto topic, and my second point - URL changes in the revamp? 23:58:26 Is the android release mature enough to be on the page for download? or perhaps as a 'development release' or something? Or is that sponge's project and not something that ought to be up there? 23:58:29 dg: yeah I haven;t tried it, i2psnark works just fine for me. 23:58:29 sorry str4d :) 23:59:08 So: would the url /lang/blog/post/XXXX/XX/XX/slug be preferable to the current /lang/blog/entry/XXXX/XX/XX/slug ? 23:59:15 //lang/support/* vs /lang/help/* ? 23:59:22 str4d: we could add some of the newer services to the interesting eepsite list if that's what you are after 23:59:25 /lang/volunteer/* vs /lang/get-involved/* ? 23:59:36 /post/* and /lang/help/* 23:59:59 dg: you said support yesterday, not help =P 00:00:26 h2ik: you mean the list of eepsites on /home ? 00:00:29 (in the routerconsole) 00:00:36 That's not what I'm referring to. 00:01:34 Starting build #12 for job Cobertura Coverage Reports 00:02:50 str4d: oh the front web page, I see, sorry. 00:03:35 h2ik: I've re-organized the pages into more SEO- and user-friendly URLs, but I'm asking if they should be changed (before I go through and ensure that all internal links are up-to-date) 00:03:35 h2ik: not the front page so much as the URLs of other pages. 00:03:42 str4d: changed my mind I think 00:03:45 So e.g. /en/volunteer/bounties vs /en/get-involved/bounties 00:03:52 str4d: support is almost too professional? 00:03:56 str4d: /lang/get-involved/* 00:04:03 And /en/support/faq vs /en/help/faq 00:04:06 * h2ik nods in understanding. 00:04:17 dg: yeah, that's what I was starting to think as well, hence my RFC 00:04:55 h2ik: the navbar roughly corresponds to the URL sub-structure, but not entirely. 00:05:11 /en/help/faq.. I think. I'm 50/50 on help/support. Help is maybe too bland but support too formal? 00:05:35 dg: I was also worried about conflation of meaning with help / volunteer 00:06:34 And if volunteer is changed to get-involved, what should be done about that menu? So far, no menu-opening items are linked as well (again, preventing conflation of meaning). 00:08:26 str4d: Get involved is more motivational, volunteer is not so "you can do something now!", I guess. 00:08:41 as for the help/volunteer.. uh. 00:08:44 yeah I like get involved 00:09:32 primal: then where should the "Get Involved!" page be linked from? 00:09:51 main page 00:09:58 AFK for 30 mins 00:10:01 primal: I mean in the nav-bar 00:10:16 How about we just rename Volunteer to Get Involved? 00:10:31 (See how "Volunteer" is the menu title and it has an option "Get Involved!") 00:10:34 +1 on that. Volunteer is crap 00:10:46 Then the navbar actually LINKS (like Download does), but has a drop down too? 00:10:49 Is this possible? 00:11:24 oh hurm 00:11:24 oh where it is is fine, just after 'help' 00:11:54 Also, the comparisons for networks is inconsistent. 00:11:54 Get Involved or Join Us (or similar) - we want to encourage people to join our fun band of like-minded privacy people .. just saying 00:12:18 /en/about/comparison/gnunet design even is different to /en/about/comparison/freenet 00:12:29 I don't know if I like /just/ the chunk of test either. 00:12:32 *text 00:13:13 Project Cobertura Coverage Reports build #12:UNSTABLE in 11 min: http://eotfca7qexthbireor6ae7g4hbj5hwuhe4gkzxdx3l3g2t5gzn7q.b32.i2p/job/cobertura/12/ 00:13:25 dg: that was what I meant 00:15:51 Btw, where can I find swt.jar? 00:16:21 str4d: in case nobody has mentioned it before, THANK YOU for taking this on. 00:16:43 swt.jar: your package manager or http://www.eclipse.org/swt/ 00:16:46 Title: SWT: The Standard Widget Toolkit (at www.eclipse.org) 00:17:01 ah ok 00:18:10 re: cobertura: 00:18:13 00:13:10 Code coverage enforcement failed for the following metrics: 00:18:16 00:13:10 Lines's stability is 24.85 and set mininum stability is 24.88. 00:18:16 00:13:10 Methods's stability is 30.55 and set mininum stability is 30.65. 00:18:16 00:13:10 Setting Build to unstable. 00:18:37 00:21:03 <+dg> Then the navbar actually LINKS (like Download does), but has a drop down too? 00:21:03 <+dg> Is this possible? <-- possible and the way it was originally IIRC 00:21:33 not sure if it is a good design choice but it works better in $self->head 00:21:52 got dc'd 00:22:03 gah 00:22:06 got dcd 00:23:36 I got dcd as well 00:24:16 /en/about/comparison/gnunet design even is different to /en/about/comparison/freenet <-- I copied the /en/about/comparison/tor template 00:24:27 The tor and freenet comparisons are as-is from the current website 00:24:38 (Just split onto separate pages( 00:25:15 dg: that was what I meant 00:25:23 ^-- last I saw before dv 00:25:23 dc 00:26:07 Ah, right. Still, not so great. 00:26:45 Caught up from kytv's logs. 00:27:00 h2ik: thanks! I decided that it needed doing ^_^ 00:27:27 dg: the same can be said for a number of existing pages. 00:28:08 Then the navbar actually LINKS (like Download does), but has a drop down too? <-- That's my concern. What is the general position on this? 00:32:48 I'm okay with it but it may be bad "design-wise". 00:32:52 I'm no UX guy. ;) 00:33:06 are we still officially in meeting? 00:33:13 Kind of. 00:33:16 RN-Droid: yes 00:33:19 If you wanna bring something up, shoot! 00:33:30 Though I was about to end it, since it was tailing off. 00:33:54 have we got any feedback from postman about linking together the 2 channels? 00:34:09 dg: it's marginally better now that I've removed the need for s as styling, so the user can now tell the difference between a menu item that goes somewhere and one that doesn't (by the cursor) 00:34:15 RN-Droid: I forgot to bring that up >_< 00:34:38 And postman hasn't been around (not saying that he hasn't been listening) 00:35:01 RN-Droid: We do not need postman for it, just someone to set the mode.. more or less. zzz gave his blessing. IMO, we can redirect first, change things later. postman etc could apply a rule server side but we don't need it. Shouldn't cause any problems as long as someone is in the channel to keep the mode set. 00:35:08 str4d: ah, yes 00:35:45 dg: still not sure if it's okay from a UX perspective (I wasn't even sure if having one of the top ones linking and the other opening was alright) 00:35:56 (But at least with the latter, there is no linking AND opening) 00:36:27 great well I personally will leave it on my list but if we're redirecting people in I get disconnected uh how do we know for sure somebody's gonna be in there? 00:36:30 So, to summarize the URL changes: 00:36:58 RN-Droid: Some bot.. or something. Ok temporarily but ideally, server side or nothing referencing it. or both. 00:37:01 RN-Droid: it's an automatic redirect when they connect. 00:37:08 str4d: btw, sorry for hijacking so much 00:37:08 (Isn't it?) 00:37:23 okay sounds good in Psych to pedia will probably be in there too so we should have it covered 00:37:26 if done server side it's automatic. 00:37:29 dg: no worries. The rest of the meeting went to structure enough ^_^ 00:37:37 str4d: and yes, but someone needs to be in there to keep up the mode, although doesn't have to be an op. Once the channel empties, default modes come back. I don't think you can mlock it. 00:37:44 (if not server side check out mode +L) 00:37:52 "org.eclipse.swt.graphics does not exist" 00:37:55 >.> 00:38:06 So: I'll change /lang/volunteer/* to /lang/get-involved/* but leave the nav menu as-is for now until a UX decision is made. 00:38:09 okay we can hash out the mode situation of the service I redirect later Thanks for I listen to my input 00:38:16 /lang/blog/post/* is already changed. 00:38:23 str4d: Sounds good 00:38:46 And /lang/support/* vs /lang/help/* hasn't been properly decided on yet, so I'll leave it for now. 00:38:53 looks good to me 00:39:23 primal: you're still keen to have a look at the writing-related tasks on ticket #807 ? 00:39:38 http://trac.i2p2.i2p/ticket/807 - (accepted enhancement) - Revamp of website 00:39:41 (After another hour of discussion ^_^) 00:39:55 forward slash M e! drops out before baffing... I'll give more feedback when I redo the meeting later if there's anything else I have to add 00:40:03 str4d: sure I am lol 00:40:17 Excellent =) 00:40:37 And I'll close ticket #792 now that we have (mostly) decided on the front page text - if it needs tweaking the ticket can always be re-opened. 00:40:43 http://trac.i2p2.i2p/ticket/792 - (assigned task) - Replace left column content 00:40:51 So, any other points of order before the meeting officially ends? 00:41:34 I just jizzed my pants. 00:42:39 str4d: I wish to propose we get a user advocate type position! 00:42:39 primal: We do, and orion has fulfilled it! 00:42:39 (PR manager == user advocate) 00:42:39 dg: not quite =P 00:42:42 str4d: I thought we decided they were more or less the same umbrella? 00:42:45 There is actually a separate entry for it on /team 00:42:52 dg: sort-of. 00:42:59 oh really? cool 00:43:06 who is the user advocate? 00:43:25 I'm up for it if it's not the same thing as PR manager 00:43:28 primal: orion is the PR manager, and apparently the user advocate as well. 00:44:02 If we have too many committees we'll end up like the Methodist hurch. 00:44:06 dg: in my mind, PR manager was more about managing I2P appearances, liaising with media etc. 00:44:13 s/hurch/church 00:44:20 *shudder* 00:44:20 rofl 00:44:23 str4d: ah, and user advocate? 00:44:34 I don't think the definitions are too hard-set as it is. 00:44:41 str4d: well if a user advocate IS an open position, I'd want to apply for it, if you can tell me how I'd do so. 00:45:04 From the /team page: User Advocate: gather, prioritize, advocate for user needs 00:45:07 I'm not sure what *I* am, while we're on the subject 00:46:03 primal: well you can either JFDI ^_^ or you can wait until the next general meeting for a more formal application (like orion today) 00:46:14 dg: neither am I, really ^_^ 00:46:59 primal, dg: if you hadn't gathered, next week's meeting is going to be a crypto meeting, discussing the need for migrating I2P's crypto (unless the time gets shifted). 00:47:10 str4d: how do I do it? is there a form or something ? amd plau 00:47:22 primal: I just made a thread on the forum. 00:47:33 str4d: I'll just be "dg - overall dg" for now then :) 00:47:36 zzz 00:48:03 as for the crypto meeting, I don't know if I can weigh in but I will try. I'm no crypto god but I'd rather not be silent for the duration. 00:48:03 primal: not really a form, as it's not a proper formal process. zzz.i2p forum thread would be best, especially if there are more than one applicant (not that there's no reason for having both ^_^) 00:48:10 It'll be interesting for me nonetheless.. 00:48:41 dg: it's not going to be so much a decision of what crypto to go to (though I expect that will be important) as much as *how* to migrate. 00:49:07 * str4d aims to try and bring together the relevant minds to do some concerted brainstorming. 00:49:22 Anyway, anything else to be officially meeting-ed? 00:49:44 str4d: Alright, I'll try to help where possible. Let me know if I should shut up though ;-) 00:49:48 Don't think so. 00:50:20 str4d: sounds good. I will do so 00:50:24 all done here 00:50:43 Alright: 00:50:43 * str4d *baf*s the meeting closed. 00:51:01 Now for the after-party. 00:51:07 \o/ 00:51:14 \o\ \o/ /o/ 00:51:29 *wub wub*