20:02:10 http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539 20:02:10 0) hi 20:02:10 1) jisko.i2p console home page submission http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539 20:02:10 2) i2pjump.i2p addition http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539 20:02:10 3) Host release files on i2p.no http://zzz.i2p/topics/1390 20:02:10 4) OpenITP audit manager http://zzz.i2p/topics/1533 post #4 20:02:11 5) anything else 20:02:13 6) baffer 20:02:19 0) hi 20:02:24 hi 20:02:40 1) jisko.i2p console home page submission http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539 20:02:46 Is the jisko op here? 20:03:35 any comments on the jisko submission? 20:03:44 +1 20:03:54 add it. 20:04:28 any objections? 20:07:05 hi 20:07:11 No objections here 20:07:13 great, even jisko's competitor does not object... 20:07:13 It's a good alternative to id3nt (which I need to spend some time on sometime) 20:07:13 Hey, the more the merrier 20:07:13 indeed. I'll add it to mtn 20:07:13 Then if I go down, there are alternatives 20:07:13 2) i2pjump.i2p addition http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539 20:07:33 I see tuna is not here but he claims he got all the tests to pass 20:07:41 and he posted his code 20:07:46 any objections? 20:07:54 or comments? 20:08:22 no objections so far 20:09:17 there's this guy emailing grothoff saying he was "inspired" by the jump code 20:10:25 hearing no objections, I'll ask tuna to add it to mtn since he has privs 20:10:31 3) Host release files on i2p.no http://zzz.i2p/topics/1390 20:10:39 Meeh, are you here? 20:11:06 we discussed at CCC, he said he almost certainly had the bandwidth 20:11:22 are there any reasonable alternatives? 20:11:28 google drive seems a little tacky 20:11:30 thoughts? 20:11:50 google drive is a bit ugly, right 20:12:08 but it is quite hard to block. 20:12:23 I would run a download host and a copy in google drive 20:12:36 or somewhere else like Mega, Sharehosts,... 20:12:56 str4d, what's the state of the pick-your-mirror code in the website? 20:13:51 zzz: mirrors get added in a backend file, and are used to generate the file-specific list. 20:15:16 oh, I forgot about the 'select alternate link' 20:15:19 Path urls can contain the version if desired (so files can be organized on the server by version) 20:15:31 The default is set in the backend code 20:16:05 would 'alternate download locations' be better than 'select alternate link' ? 20:16:07 or 'view mirror list' 20:16:27 thats really nice I forgot that we worked on that a lot 20:17:08 'Any mirror' pick a mirror at random from the list. 20:17:08 zzz: here now! 20:17:15 any objections to Meeh being the primary download location? 20:17:23 i2p.nu * 20:17:25 or i2p2.no 20:17:39 oh it's not i2p.no? 20:17:40 currently not, as long as it is not the only one 20:17:48 no sorry, I got i2p.nu, and i2p2.no 20:18:11 add "facebook" as a point on the meeting for me, got some nice news 20:18:41 ok FB will be 5) 20:19:01 the bad word... 20:19:12 I just need to cough... *sorry* 20:20:03 looks like you are already in the mirror list as download.i2p2.no, is that working? 20:20:07 if you want to add i2p.nu also, fine, more the merrier, as long as you are around at update time, or somebody else has the password 20:20:41 you can work with str4d on the urls? 20:21:19 yepp 20:21:34 any other comments? 20:22:02 I need to check where download.i2p2.no points, might need to change it to another host, need to check I/O. and I can provide more urls if needed. other than that; no :) 20:22:38 ok you have a couple weeks before the next release but better sooner than later to get everything right 20:22:48 No comments from me 20:22:50 I got the domains, I say we can use it as you guys wish, meaning, just give me instructions on how you want it :P 20:23:14 +1 for everything so far (and I'll be happy to continue to handle the uploading of the download files) 20:23:18 I'm tinkering with Makefile.gcj, and I've ran into a snag brought on by my relative naivety of java & gcj. I'm getting a java.lang.NullPointerException brought on by missing jar.so's like ant-1.8.2.jar.so, which exist in a dir outside of $JAVA_HOME, and I'm guessing that that's the problem 20:23:26 you and str4d can work the details if needed 20:23:42 DarkestMatter, we are in the middle of a meeting if you would please wait about half an hour 20:23:45 Where would I need to symlink the ACTUAL dir into under JAVA_HOME for the build process to find them? 20:24:06 next on the agenda: 20:24:06 4) OpenITP audit manager http://zzz.i2p/topics/1533 post #4 20:24:29 background: OpenITP is about to open up their submission process 20:24:38 we need somebody in charge 20:24:56 They said we should apply even if we aren't ready 20:24:59 which we arent 20:25:28 I've posted a 3-phase process in the post above 20:25:45 where we submit, then get ready, then really submit and manage the audit 20:26:05 at CCC we agreed fixing up the threat model is the most important 20:26:31 Comments? Does anybody want to be in charge? 20:28:10 The general plan looks sound. 20:29:48 Suspecting that we would not have any volunteers, I discussed it with Brandon WIley, asking if we could pay him to do it. (He is currently consulting for zooko, whose company does audits). Thoughts? 20:30:05 how much? 20:31:03 I am happy to contribute to the audit, but will likely not have the time to manage it myself. 20:32:26 I assume several thousand dollars at least 20:32:26 much higher if we actually get audited although that probably wouldn't be until 2015 20:32:29 it's probably better for an external party to do it even if it costs a few k 20:32:29 If we pay him, we want to ensure that it is useful. 20:32:53 that would incluse exactly what? 20:32:54 if he's doing this for a living he is (most probably) going to do a better job than anyone of us 20:33:49 ++1 external, and ++1 if it helps getting a better standing, review-wise 20:34:06 I would want him to actually help us fix stuff, not just be a traditional "consultant" or preauditor who just points out problems 20:34:27 Brandon is a busy guy but also a guy currently looking for money 20:34:56 and would he help you fix? 20:34:58 If you havent' seen it: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brandonwiley/operator-a-news-reader-that-circumvents-internet-c 20:35:52 I asked him to look at our openitp audit page on trac 20:36:07 http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/OpenITPReview/Criteria 20:36:19 and await openitp's announcement and submission process details 20:36:26 I2P has never (to my knowledge) had a proper security expert. I think paying for one to get the groundwork for this right is a good idea (and probably long overdue). 20:36:27 my opnion as an outsieder / user only, is that a few thousand $ should be ok, as long as it's <10k and not just some makeup, but really thorough 20:36:42 until that's published it's not worth getting into negotiations with him 20:36:53 but Eleanor said any day... 20:37:51 eche|on, what's our balance? ~$500K? 20:38:00 If you want that I change topic of http://zzz.i2p/topics/1546? 20:38:31 wowa, we are in the middle of a meeting, please wait until we are done, thx 20:38:36 zzz: roughly 500 BTC and 50k € 20:39:37 sounds like people are positive about the idea. Sadly even if we hire him to be in charge, we need to find somebody to be in charge of him... 20:39:40 Moin 20:42:42 I don't think there's anything more to do until the OpenITP announcement, then we can ask if Brandon is interested, if so we will have to talk about again 20:42:49 any other comments on 4) 20:42:49 Did I miss the meeting? 20:42:49 EinMByte: in progress 20:42:49 Ein: Just the beginning 20:42:49 ok, 493 BTC and 48k euro 20:42:49 oh, okay 20:42:49 last call on 4) 20:42:49 No comments at this time. 20:42:49 Other than, planning should start on the wiki 20:42:49 str4d, let's discuss in NYC too 20:42:49 zzz: yes. 20:42:49 5) facebook Meeh go 20:42:49 * str4d will move the 3-step plan to /wiki/OpenITPReview/Plan 20:42:49 ok 20:42:49 As I said to zzz on CCC, I now got control over the https://www.facebook.com/I2P page 20:42:49 Good thing for publicity, I suppose 20:42:49 way cool :) 20:42:49 I personally avoid the thing, but obviously most people have facebook 20:42:49 and I used ~10$ and 15min of my time in between my dayjob, and likes rised from 150 to 300 20:42:49 so far good, but I keep outof facebook 20:42:50 this was in less than 10 hours 20:42:56 so it's definitely a good thing to get more users 20:43:02 you don't need a account to see the page 20:43:22 however, I think we need to be public there too, to get "big", more users 20:43:22 Meeh: I know, was more referring to liking and the like 20:43:37 but, nobody here like facebook, nor got an account :P 20:44:04 so, I might have something from work, that I can reuse so we can have an i2p url for some selected which can login and post to facebook, via I2P 20:44:09 Hello, about 3) would it also be possible to host releases on github? 20:44:12 Meeh, is that it or are you asking for discussion or...? 20:44:55 mostly info, but I think it could be a idea to have an discussion about reaching our users via "social media" 20:44:57 TerraNullius, we are done with 3) for now, sorry, you can wait until after the meeting to discuss further 20:45:37 Meeh, please discuss with orion, he's our head of publicity, I assume he has some ideas 20:45:43 Meeh: obviously those new users will need to understand that using "social media" isn't without risks 20:45:54 we can also brainstorm with him in NYC and get back to you 20:46:07 we need more contributors, content providers, users, +++, and as we can see the "corporate" world collects a lot of users from SM 20:46:32 EinMByte: ofc. but someone needs to tell them ;) 20:46:39 that's where we comes in 20:46:41 very true 20:46:47 and underground I2P parties :) 20:46:47 Who would moderate i2p<->fb? That will be spam central. 20:46:49 you're paying people to like you? 20:46:56 (until 6 am) 20:47:03 yes a little now just to see how much I could boost it 20:47:05 zzz: yes, some folks do that 20:47:16 22 friends and the rest from ads 20:47:23 now all we need are firetrucks 20:48:11 Giant: read me again. "for some selected which can login" :) 20:48:16 selected is the keyworld 20:48:18 word* 20:48:24 good job Meeh , let's all feed him some content. There's a couple pix from ccc too that you can post 20:48:25 I have one from tuna but you'll have to crop off the people in the background 20:48:37 anything else on 5) ? 20:48:51 Awsome, if someone can give me a link for it I will upload a gallery, including some from me 20:49:08 ye, I'll fix that 20:49:11 ok just be sure to crop 20:49:26 anything else for the meeting? 20:49:35 yes 20:49:39 why crop? are you on them in the background? ;) 20:49:46 I'd like to propose a short discussion about GNS integration 20:50:16 Are we still looking into that? 20:50:16 * str4d was about to mention that 20:50:27 user: it wasn't allowed to take pictures if not all agreed on it, and we can't find all ppl to ask if it's ok to publish 20:50:35 GNS or others 20:50:35 ok it could go all day so let's try 10 minutes 20:50:37 6) GNS EinMByte go 20:51:07 Meeh: ah, ok. that makes sense 20:51:09 EinMByte: looking into it, yes. 20:51:22 Alright, so what approach are we going to take 20:51:25 reimplement? 20:51:28 No guarantees that it will happen, or be a direct integration (or even that it will be GNS). 20:51:40 is there still some possibility of not having to rewrite? 20:51:46 But what we have now is an ad-hoc "just works" mess. 20:52:16 What about support from their side? 20:52:31 topiltzin: want to be a facebook star again? :) (wrt I2P, pictures, CCC) 20:52:34 They seemed pretty "closed"... 20:53:02 sure thing Meeh go for it :) 20:53:34 spent hours and hours with Christian at CCC 20:54:19 zzz: no results whatsoever from that? 20:54:30 EinMByte: *if* we decide to use GNS as-is (and ignore the fact that by default its DHT is not anonymous), then we could hook it in for testing with ExecNamingService 20:54:33 There's a defined API. We just write a script that can query that API, and run it from ExecNamingService. 20:54:33 Simple. But not at all optimal. 20:54:42 could be anything from 'they solve all our problems' to 'lets use some of it' to 'those are some good ideas' to wow, no thanks 20:55:08 no results really. Other than we promised to look into it 20:55:37 I think we need to understand what they are doing. Beyond that, nothing is decided 20:56:15 atm I'm a skeptic on all things gnunet. Doesn't mean I couldn't be convinced. 20:56:31 zzz forwarded me an interesting exchange about I2P naming, it mentioned several other techs besides GNS 20:57:39 well, I suppose that (as you say zzz), there may be some problems with the ideas behind GNS 20:58:02 That is: will our users be able to adapt 20:58:09 DLV (DNSSEC Lookaside Validation), DNSCurve... 20:58:14 There are more technologies out there than GNS 20:58:14 I can see that many ideas in GNS have been developed from scratch, assuming nothing. 20:58:37 boiling the oceans 20:58:44 sure. It's been a long time since we discussed our naming system in the big context of the internet, the triangle, alternatives, etc, so that's a good thing 20:58:48 Yes. Since we need an alternative to hosts.txt for sure, we might as well look into those alternatives 20:59:00 Even things like how the local cache is stored encrypted, as a direct copy of the blocks obtained from the DHT 20:59:02 but he is indeed trying to boil 20:59:37 I ran a quick test, I can confirm that NamingServices can be distributed as plugins. 20:59:39 we talked about a layer that hides the GNS ugliness that we would have to design and implement. However that may also hide some of the benefits. 20:59:59 It only requires that the default NamingService is a MetaNamingService. 21:01:06 Are there any downsides to making the install-default NamingService a MetaNamingService, and the default added NamingService to it BlockfileNamingService? 21:01:08 let's wrap up 6), we aren't going to fix things here 21:01:08 anything else on 6) ? anything else for the meeting? 21:01:15 (Current default NS is BlockfileNamingService, and current default added NS to Meta is HostsTxt...) 21:01:26 one more thing on 6: 21:01:30 zzz: above proposal is I think part of 6 21:01:32 str4d, you mention alternatives? 21:01:50 if GNS doesn't work, we can always check out other things 21:01:54 they might fit us better 21:02:25 EinMByte: yes. I have no knowledge of these alternatives, but all ideas are worth consideration. 21:04:12 zzz: I propose that we change to MNS in 0.9.10, there is no visible change to users, but then if people want to test a NS plugin they don't need to edit router.config 21:04:18 ok, everybody keep working on these ideas big and little, thats how we make things better 21:04:35 str4d: okay. I will try to find some time to look into them 21:04:48 I suppose this closes 6? 21:04:54 str4d, we can do it when we need to but no rush? needs more testing too. Maybe post a howto? 21:05:17 ok you all can keep yakking but I gotta run 21:05:19 I'll offer the contrarian view: our current naming system works just fine 21:05:27 same here 21:05:30 and has some benefits we want to keep 21:05:38 * str4d afk 21:06:06 * zzz *bafs* the meeting closed