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<zzz> 0) Hi
<zzz> 1) Reimbursement for 31C3 attendees (zzz, echelon)
<zzz> 2) Purchase of test/build boxes (zzz, kytv)
<zzz> 3) 0.9.17 and/or 0.9.16.1 release schedule (zzz)
<zzz> 4) Reseed status and new admin (zzz)
<zzz> 5) SU3 news test before 0.9.17 (zzz, echelon, psi)
<zzz> 6) 6-month roadmap, NTCP2 etc. (str4d, rescheduled from Oct. 28)
<zzz> 7) New developer topics (str4d)
<zzz> 0) Hi
<zzz> Hi
<dg> hi, was able to make it.
<str4d> Hi
<orignal> hi
<zzz> I'd like to keep items 1-5 short, 5-10 minutes each. I'll then turn it over to str4d for the remaining items to run for as long as he likes.
<zzz> 1) Reimbursement for 31C3 attendees (zzz, echelon)
<zzz> We've traditionally paid for conference tickets for project members and I think there is broad consensus to continue this
<RN> hi
<zzz> Since CCC last year was so productive, I propose that we provide additional funds to support people and encourage them to attend
<zzz> Not a full reimbursement, but just partial support. I propose 200 euros each, on top of the ticket.
<zzz> thoughts/discussion?
<eche|on> no problem with me
<str4d> The ticket is 150 euro IIRC?
<RN> sounds reasonable to me... 350...
20:04:02 <zzz> I think the ticket is 100-120 euros
20:04:43 <eche|on> ticket was 80 euro last time
20:04:43 <str4d> https://events.ccc.de/congress/2014/wiki/Static:Tickets
20:04:46 <iRelay> Title: Tickets - 31C3_Public_Wiki (at events.ccc.de)
20:05:01 <zzz> In addition, if there is anybody that would require a higher level of support to be able to attend at all, they should speak up now
20:05:16 <RN> what's the date?
20:05:29 <eche|on> 27th til 30th december
<zzz> sounds like we have agreement for the general idea. Any discussion on the exact amount?
* RN can not attend....
<RN> but I think extra over ticket is good for incedentals and accomodations....
<str4d> I have no objections to 200 euro + ticket
<eche|on> so, who is going and who would get the money? ;-)
<RN> would 200 cover two days hotel, or all four?
<zzz> I assume it would be about 8 people, same as last year, for budgeting purposes
<eche|on> RN: depends on the hotel, it would cover a hostel for sure
<str4d> RN: depends where you go
<eche|on> ok, not the amount of people is a problem, but I would not like to pay a newbie that money, just because she/he read about it. no issue for "well known" people
<zzz> right
<str4d> https://events.ccc.de/2014/10/14/31c3-special-terms-at-generator-hostel/
<str4d> Special 31C3 deal. Double rooms are available for 70.00 Euro, a bed in a six-person dorm 17.00 Euro per night.
<zzz> this is in no way a complete coverage of hotel/food/plane. Just a little help to encourage team members to attend
<zzz> last call for discussion on 1)
<str4d> With two people sharing the double above, the 200 euro would cover the hotel
<RN> still sounds resonable to me...
<zzz> ok, sounds like we have agreement
<eche|on> sure
<RN> :)
<zzz> 2) Purchase of test/build boxes (zzz, kytv)
<zzz> we have limited test coverage for windows and mac.
<zzz> zab used to test with mac, he's gone; meeh has a mac but it died and/or he ran out of time
<zzz> so I wanted to ask if we could get more test coverage if we bought win or mac boxes for kytv and/or others
<RN> my mac is too old to help... and I blew up the powerstrip it used to plug into...
<Meeh_> zzz: what do I need to test ?
<zzz> these could be used for other things too (e.g. laptops might be nice)
<Meeh_> got OSX 10.9 and 10.10
<eche|on> I do have a win box, but not the time. we still do have 2 win 8 licenses
<Meeh_> tell me and I'm doing it now
<zzz> Meeh_, running dev builds. Do you run them now?
<dg> when we say 'test coverage', what do we mean?
<zzz> is anybody running dev builds on windows?
<Meeh_> no sorry, new mac.. just a day ago since my lenovo died, marielle had to buy me one
<Meeh_> so I just installed java
<Meeh_> give me a sec and I'll build and start
<RN> yeah, cuz depending on the time and level of test coverage... I got an XP +pos_ready running test builds
20:14:15 <dg> i could if needed to but that'd be in a VM and I wouldn't e using it intensely
20:14:25 <dg> just seeing if it works after uptime, try some eepsites, run some snark, check for errors
20:14:30 <dg> I don't know if I'd hit all the errors a real user would
20:14:47 <zzz> my question is, can we encourage anybody to do more dev build testing if we bought them dedicated boxes?
20:15:31 <str4d> There are two kinds of testing we would benefit from: people manually doing QA on the builds, and CI servers running on Windows and Mac.
20:15:39 <eche|on> not me. I got all hardware/software, but not the time/mood for intensive test
20:15:49 <zzz> yes str4d
20:16:09 <RN> or what if the box was set up with some kind of "safe-via-i2p" remote access for the dev team...
20:16:17 <Meeh_> zzz, I can always do OSX testing, if I'm not replying on IRC, try twitter or meeh@mail.i2p since both will alert my phone
20:16:24 <str4d> This topic appears to be about QA, but what would it take to get e.g. a Mac CI server hooked into kytv's jenkins?
20:16:47 <Meeh_> for a CI yes
20:16:48 <zzz> anybody that would do more if we bought them hardware?
20:16:59 <Meeh_> unfortunally I must move my mac from time to time
20:17:22 <eche|on> <= missing the free network connection so far.
20:17:23 <Meeh_> what hardware, what teting in what OS? (regardless of paying hw)
20:17:26 <zzz> Meeh you seem to be having less time lately, not more
20:17:37 <zzz> windows and mac
20:17:41 <eche|on> I already do run one I2P node on my address. But hm, I could run windows on IPv6
20:17:48 <Meeh_> yes, cleared up a lot in RL that took time
20:17:53 <RN> if the rest of my infrastructure wasn't constanly a mess I'd volunteer a home for a box....
20:18:26 <Meeh_> fyi, i2pd/i2p will be available from au,ru,nl,uk,de,no,us-w,us-e in about a hour
20:18:34 <Meeh_> downloadable
20:18:39 <zzz> ok let's not worry about who in particular. eche|on if we found somebody, do we have the budget to buy some hardware?
20:18:40 <Meeh_> CDN
20:18:47 <zzz> Meeh please stay on topic
20:18:52 <eche|on> zzz: we do have fund, for sure
20:19:02 <eche|on> btw, Meeh, did the money arrive ?
20:19:17 <zzz> ok I propose that we end this topic and look for volunteers in the coming weeks
20:19:18 <RN> check me in 6 mo if I've stabilized the deamons...
20:19:24 <zzz> eche|on, please stay on topic
20:19:34 <zzz> any other discussion on 2) ?
20:20:03 <Meeh_> oh, sorry I forgot to reply. it's paid and done.. I guess I got the money but marielle transfered at the same time so need to double check. but quite sure. thanks
20:20:07 <dg> i'd like to hear from kytv
20:20:18 <Meeh_> eche|on: ^
20:20:28 <dg> pm guys
20:20:40 <zzz> let's put this on the agenda to revisit for the next meeting
20:20:51 <str4d> +1
20:20:51 <zzz> 3) 0.9.17 and/or 0.9.16.1 release schedule (zzz)
20:21:07 <eche|on> I vote for 0.9.17
20:21:18 <zzz> At one point I wanted to do a 0.9.16.1 release to fix the SSU bug but I'm pretty much over it
20:21:21 <dg> Nothing's fallen down.. so 0.9.17.
20:21:21 <eche|on> in 2-3 weeks
20:21:41 <zzz> I'm now proposing a "mini" 0.9.17 release the weekend of Nov. 29
20:22:00 <zzz> i.e. a 4 week cycle to fix bugs, well before the christmas break
20:22:02 <str4d> There are several reports on forum.i2p that 0.9.16 network has slowed, and participation at nodes is down.
20:22:03 <RN> "mini?"
20:22:22 <zzz> mini as in limited changes, and not a full 6-7 week cycle
20:22:25 <str4d> IDK if the SSU bug could be causing that...
20:22:37 <RN> ah... yes... mini... good plan...
20:22:43 <zzz> pretty much what's in mtn now. About 13K lines of diff, but most of that is eddsa test changes
20:22:49 <orignal> sure it does. becuase dropped packets
20:23:10 <zzz> btw, my expl. build success stats are up significantly since the .16 release. Don't know why
20:23:11 <RN> so sounds like yesses for do a mini release
<zzz> the SSU bug is actually just an irritation, I don't think it's the cause of any real problems
<zzz> ok let's declare tag freeze and shoot for a release in 11 days
<zzz> anything else on 3)?
<eche|on> so 0.9.17 in 2 weeks
<RN> wooohooo!
<str4d> Are the release host operators available then?
<dg> yup.
<str4d> (Remembering that Nov 29th is just after Thanksgiving)
<dg> It doesn't take long for me, it won't be an issue.
<zzz> we'll assume so for now and slip as necessary. i'll be around but in a turkey semi-coma. perfect for building.
<dg> It's mostly echelon you need anyway
<zzz> 4) Reseed status and new admin (zzz)
<zzz> This is just a brief announcement for those that don't know.
<Meeh_> yeo
<zzz> Due to time constraints, Meeh has moved the reseeed admin job to 'backup'
<Meeh_> which is clearly the best at the moment :)
<zzz> backup is not on irc but he can easily be contacted backup@mail.i2p or on the reseed subforum on zzz.i2p
<zzz> thanks to meeh and backup for a smooth transition
<Meeh_> but I think logstash will be interesting for the reseed admin soon
<Meeh_> which I collect from mine
<eche|on> thankjsgiving is no issue here in europe
<zzz> backup is working on getting the remainder of sites onto su3, improving monitoring, and recruiting new hosts
<zzz> so please give backup your full support.
<str4d> Aye :)
<dg> :)
<zzz> also work with him if you have SSL / TLS issues he's discovered
<zzz> anything else on 4)?
<Meeh_> I can provide reseed from russia and australia now
<Meeh_> if wanted
<Meeh_> as well
<Meeh_> nothing more on 4 from me
<eche|on> Meeh_: ask baclup^^
<zzz> great, contact your new leader ;)
<zzz> 5) SU3 news test before 0.9.17 (zzz, echelon, psi)
<eche|on> aah
<zzz> .17 include a switch to su3 news.
<eche|on> thats a topic
<eche|on> I need to test it
20:29:17 <zzz> I'd like to have eche|on add a news item, build the su3, so we can test it before the .17 release
20:29:43 * str4d is thinking through the current spec to ensure it is optimal
20:29:52 <zzz> all dev builds should be pulling from news.su3 now but since there's been nothing new since the release, it needs a test
20:30:07 <eche|on> I will try to generate a .su3 the next days
20:30:25 <zzz> would also be ideal, but not required, if psi would create a cert and check it in, since he's the backup but can't currently create his own su3 file
20:30:45 <dg> why can't he?
20:32:24 <zzz> str4d, also review the XHTML whitelist in the code please
20:32:24 <zzz> great, thanks eche|on
20:32:24 <str4d> Will do.
20:32:24 <eche|on> zzz: script was in mtn?
20:32:24 <zzz> eche|on, yes, i2p.scripts
20:32:24 <zzz> I know str4d has proposed writing the XML by hand, and thats what i did for the .16 release, but perhaps a search for a feed writer would be helpful
20:32:24 <zzz> don't know
20:32:24 <zzz> anything else on 5) ?
20:32:24 <str4d> What I would actually propose is:
20:32:51 <str4d> - Find a program for writing Atom feeds.
20:33:22 <str4d> -- If nothing suitable, write a Python script that converts a directory of XHTML entries into a feed...?
20:33:56 <zzz> yup
20:33:56 <str4d> - Store the info on the release versions etc. in a separate config file, and have a script that inserts it into the atom feed.
20:34:19 <zzz> str4d, please do that spec review in the next couple days
20:34:26 <str4d> K
20:34:38 <zzz> anything else on 5) ?
20:35:26 <zzz> 6) 6-month roadmap, NTCP2 etc. (str4d, rescheduled from Oct. 28)
20:35:26 <zzz> 7) New developer topics (str4d)
20:35:38 <zzz> I hand the meeting and the baffer to str4d at this time
20:35:48 <str4d> Ooooooooo
20:35:56 * str4d grins gleefully
20:35:56 <Meeh_> and I might have news at the end
20:35:58 <Meeh_> of meeting
20:36:02 <Meeh_> so HL me str4d please :)
20:36:25 <str4d> Okay, I can't remember what exactly I was planning to say in 6) when I originally proposed it..
20:39:31 <str4d> So I'll start with 7) and see if it comes back to me.
20:39:31 <str4d> Despite the website revamp, the information we make available there is not well organized or clear.
20:39:31 <str4d> And with the last year's increased focus on privacy and security, we really need to make the most of the current environment.
20:39:57 <str4d> We have several locations with information on possible projects, tasks etc. but nothing clear, or up-to-date
20:41:06 <str4d> http://i2p-projekt.i2p/en/get-involved/todo
20:41:06 <str4d> http://i2p-projekt.i2p/en/get-involved/roadmap
20:41:06 <str4d> http://i2p-projekt.i2p/en/about/performance/future
20:41:06 <str4d> http://i2p-projekt.i2p/en/get-involved/develop/applications
20:41:06 <str4d> The last two links I'll leave for now, but at the very least I want us all now to look at the todo and roadmap pages now.
20:41:17 <str4d> like, now
20:41:20 <str4d> ;P
20:41:40 <iRelay> Title: Roadmap - I2P (at i2p-projekt.i2p)
20:41:42 <iRelay> Title: Future Performance Improvements - I2P (at i2p-projekt.i2p)
20:41:45 <iRelay> Title: Application Development - I2P (at i2p-projekt.i2p)
20:42:08 <str4d> The todo page is mostly filled with tasks that seem to have been completed. Of the tasks that are left, how many of them are still relevant?
20:43:49 <zzz> the wiki page on trac and the various threads on zzz.i2p are probably much more relevant
20:44:13 <str4d> Probably. But they are not visible to outsiders.
20:44:41 <str4d> "Hi, you want to help out with I2P? Go hunt for something to do on zzz.i2p"
20:44:49 <zzz> right
20:44:56 <str4d> I'm not saying we duplicate information.
20:45:50 <str4d> But I think the website should contain a concise overview of what we think is important for I2P, with links to more information as desired.
20:45:52 <str4d> This feeds in well to a future GSoC project.
20:46:16 <str4d> As usual, talking like this isn'
20:46:23 <str4d> t going to get much done :P
20:46:33 <zzz> is a group review now on IRC going to work, or do we need a volunteer to redo it all, or would a couple hours spent at CCC do it?
20:47:19 <str4d> Group review right now won't work. And after what I went though with the website, I don't think it's fair to put this all on one person.
20:47:40 <eche|on> I vote for a "lets do work a bit on it and if not done on CCC, do it at table
20:47:45 <zzz> maybe it's fair if it isn't you...
20:48:02 <str4d> CCC is pretty close, so that would be ideal. But we would need to get the website etc. updated *very* quickly, so we can point people to it.
20:49:32 <zzz> if your intent is this is in the context of a broader effort to apply for GSoC please make that clear
20:50:14 <str4d> I would very much like to get a GSoC student on board, but that is a separate topic.
20:50:50 <zzz> if not for GSoC, what's the reason for "very quickly"?
20:51:20 <str4d> zzz: I just meant that, if the work is done *at* CCC then we can't capitalize on it *at* CCC.
20:51:32 <zzz> oh, ok
20:52:08 <str4d> We would instead need to say "check the website in x days" which doesn't leave as good an impression.
20:53:46 <zzz> so your goal is to have a good answer for people that walk up and ask 'what do you need'?
20:53:53 <str4d> On the website, /todo is ancient. /roadmap is sparse. /performance/future is separated, and /develop/applications is a bunch of topics bundled into one.
20:53:56 <str4d> zzz: yes.
20:54:19 <str4d> People who are interested in I2P can look at the website and immediately see how their skills will be most useful.
20:54:44 <str4d> Top of the list: UI designers ^_^
20:54:53 <zzz> but the people that ask that generally have never run i2p, so my answer is 'install it and run it for a couple weeks, then ask on irc'
20:55:52 <str4d> I don't think running I2P needs to be a predicate for helping.
20:55:52 <zzz> but yeah, the other answer is 'ui, crypto, ..."
20:56:25 <str4d> IMHO if you tell someone to wait a few weeks, often the enthusiasm can be displaced by something else.
20:56:28 <str4d> Right, but we need to be more specific.
20:56:28 <zzz> but realistically is anybody going to start devving who hasn't ever used it?
20:56:59 <zzz> i can't imagine volunteering to code for some software i've never used.
20:58:33 <str4d> No, but we can start engaging with them while they start using I2P.
20:58:33 <zzz> sure. agreed with all. An up-to-date todo list is a sign of a serious project.
20:58:58 <str4d> Okay, action time:
20:58:58 <RN> it is talking about 6.x and older on there...
20:59:07 <dg> something else is whether or not we're going to drop stop-and-go, etc
20:59:16 <dg> people point to our docs and say "wow, they'll have it/do"
20:59:33 <str4d> dg: ?
21:00:43 <> RN@kyirc leans forward on chair...
21:01:06 <dg> and uh, delays
21:01:30 * RN feels nostalgic
21:02:35 <str4d> Over the next week, can everyone here draw up two lists. One with features and improvements they would like to see in I2P itself, the other with features and improvements in the I2P ecosphere (this is things like new apps and services, dev work on existing apps, research, code review etc.)
21:02:35 <str4d> Doesn't need to be long, but I think if we all contribute a few points to each, even if some are duplicates it will be a good jumping off point.
21:02:35 * str4d will draft up an outline of how the content will be presented on the website (what content will go where etc.)
21:03:29 <RN> do we have a reasonable survey mechanism? on forum or zzz?
21:03:31 <zzz> yeah, if you setup the framework we can fill it in
21:03:53 <str4d> zzz: always seems to be the case ;P
21:04:33 <str4d> Who is available this time next week for a "meeting"/group discussion?
21:04:57 <RN> I might be
21:05:55 <str4d> The sole topic will be sorting through the lists people show up with, and organizing them into the content sections I will present.
21:05:59 <zzz> sure
21:06:20 <dg> me too
21:06:31 <RN> do you want lists i2pmailed to you?
21:06:50 <RN> or contribute to a thread on fourm or trac or???
21:07:44 <str4d> RN: if you can't make it to the meeting, message me a link to pastethis.i2p
21:08:31 <str4d> Otherwise, just bring it to the meeting.
21:08:38 <RN> k
21:08:41 <str4d> Rather than a discussion on zzz.i2p, this time I want to try independent brainstorming without being influenced by what has already been posted.
21:09:16 <str4d> After the meeting, we will have something that can be posted on zzz.i2p or the wiki (probably there) for further discussion and editing.
21:11:36 <str4d> Does anyone else have more to say on 7)?
21:11:45 * str4d is done for this meeting
21:11:59 <str4d> Otherwise I'll go back to 6) briefly
21:13:30 * RN awats the baffing or the handoff of the baffer
21:13:54 * str4d assumes nothing.
21:14:00 <str4d> 6) 6-month roadmap, NTCP2 etc. (str4d, rescheduled from Oct. 28)
21:14:39 <str4d> I *still* can't remember where I wanted to go with this topic, but it dovetails nicely into 7.
21:14:52 <str4d> Previous large-scale dev work has been approximately 6-monthly, and we are about at the end of a cycle.
21:15:38 <str4d> Aside from the continual move towards new crypto, we should decide where to focus development effort for the next six months.
21:16:07 <str4d> NTCP2 is one suggestion, and PT development and integration
21:16:11 <eche|on> I am afk now
21:16:21 <str4d> o/ eche|on
21:16:49 <str4d> Formalizing our todo list will IMHO help us as much as it will help prospective new developers.
21:17:13 <str4d> At a minimum, we need to ensure that zzz's paper list of development stuff is bus-proof ;)
21:18:44 <Meeh_> what's the current topic?
21:19:24 <str4d> Meeh_: I think everyone is done with my ranting now, so I'll hand over to you :)
21:19:28 <RN> 6-mo roadmap...
21:19:53 <str4d> For 6) I think we can talk about it next week, after we have discussed peoples' lists.
21:20:00 <str4d> s/it/it more/
21:20:01 <iRelay> str4d meant: For 6) I think we can talk about it more next week, after we have discussed peoples' lists.
21:20:31 <Meeh_> ah, thanks
21:21:23 <Meeh_> well, I've meanwhile you had meeting now, done what I said I should do, and it's giving i2p a lot of more download mirrors
21:21:48 <RN> :)
21:21:55 <str4d> Yay!
21:22:03 <dg> awesome
21:22:03 <Meeh_> in some hours, download.i2p.io should work for al, and should resolve based on latency and geoip
21:22:06 <Meeh_> none recorded from my site
21:22:07 <Meeh_> dns thingy
21:22:14 <Meeh_> they also got names
21:22:17 <Meeh_> I will list them now
21:22:31 <Meeh_> the domain mentioned was a shared domain
21:23:45 <Meeh_> jp01-mirror.i2p.io, nl01-mirror.i2p.io, no01-mirror.i2p.io, ru01-mirror.i2p.io, uk01-mirror.i2p.io, use01-mirror.i2p.io, usw01-mirror.i2p.io
21:24:00 <Meeh_> all will answer on both http(s)
21:24:19 <Meeh_> oh, de01 will also emerge
21:24:38 <Meeh_> but NL01 and DE01 is probably not up before tomorrow, however all other should work in short time
21:25:01 * RN hugs Meeh_
21:25:09 <Meeh_> I've also gotten my windows and apple certificates
21:25:32 <Meeh_> so I will ve signing builds for i2pd on OSX and Windows, to escape the 2untrusted publisher" blocker/alerter
21:25:42 <Meeh_> also
21:26:20 <Meeh_> every i2p team member can have their own mail account @ i2p.io OR alias, with clearnet access for that matter
21:26:31 <Meeh_> for examle marielle has m@i2p.io, and I got mv@i2p.io
21:26:39 <Meeh_> short'n clean :D
21:27:09 <Meeh_> other than that, sorry for not beeing more around, but t I hope RL stuff are done now and I can continue here :)
21:27:51 <Meeh_> at last, a OSX and Windows build of i2pd is released tomorrow or tonight.
21:27:53 <Meeh_> thanks for listening!
21:28:12 * RN hugs Meeh_ more
21:28:41 <Meeh_> hehe, thanks RN:)
21:29:02 <str4d> Meeh_++
21:29:16 <dg> str4d, zzz, Meeh_++
21:29:32 <Meeh_> str4d, this can/could include f-droid too if you want
21:29:45 <str4d> Meeh_: is there a CDN setup for these servers, or are they "individual"? That is, how should the website mirrors list be updated?
21:30:04 <Meeh_> kytv: one server to rule them all.. remember if you publish to the one you got access to, all servers get it
21:31:42 <Meeh_> str4d: I'm partly done with the DNS balancing
21:31:42 <Meeh_> meaning it react to closest mirror
21:31:42 <Meeh_> so we could use one domain for all
21:31:42 <str4d> Okay, so the only download link that people will see is download.i2p.io
21:31:42 <Meeh_> but guide was bind9 and I'm running powerdns on the needed server so just need to ... find their way of doing the same
21:31:42 <str4d> (for this mirror system)
21:31:55 <Meeh_> yes, or if we will ... embrase it, we can write all
21:31:58 <str4d> F-droid on this would be ideal too.
21:32:51 <Meeh_> yes, right now it's just simple rsync, but I upgrade to openstack swift proxy at each location once I see high demand
21:33:07 <Meeh_> then it will be a REST url to publish updates too
21:33:15 <Meeh_> even zzz an do it himself from his browser with right credentials
21:33:31 <Meeh_> (when swift is added)
21:33:47 <Meeh_> reason I didn't right now was becasue it would have taken a hour or two more
21:33:49 <Meeh_> at least
21:34:00 <Meeh_> so then I did't catch the meeting :p
21:34:20 <str4d> Either as https://fdroid.i2p.io/repo/ and https://fdroid.i2p.io/archive/, or https://download.i2p.io/fdroid/repo/ and https://download.i2p.io/fdroid/archive/
21:34:42 <str4d> Second option is probably better, then we don't need separate HTTPS certs.
21:34:51 <psi> is i2p.io going to be an inproxy?
21:34:51 <Meeh_> pick whatever *.i2p.io/* and you can use the https wildcard
21:34:58 <Meeh_> your chooise
21:35:01 <Meeh_> nope
21:35:04 <Meeh_> i2pd's page
21:35:14 <Meeh_> subsite of PS
21:35:24 <Meeh_> ofc. linking to geti2p.net as well
21:36:02 <Meeh_> see it as a readme page more or less, both on i2p as network and i2pd as the client
21:36:21 <Meeh_> not all ready, so if you got input, please write
21:37:47 <str4d> Meeh_: sounds good. If you have a wildcard cert then I'll choose fdroid.i2p.io (or f-droid.i2p.io, which would be technically correct)
21:37:56 <str4d> Yah, go with f-droid.i2p.io
21:38:08 <Meeh_> sure, we add it
21:38:16 <str4d> Okay, the meeting is IMHO done. Any final requests for topics?
21:38:27 <Meeh_> do you want access as well, and setup your own vhost in nginx?
21:38:35 <Meeh_> same server as kytv
21:38:46 <Meeh_> got access to
21:39:00 <Meeh_> I think you had actually, or has
21:39:15 <Meeh_> because of early f-droid setup
21:39:22 <str4d> I do, yes - it's how I uploaded the existing f-droid stuff
21:39:22 <Meeh_> IIRC
21:39:32 <str4d> Anyway
21:39:34 * str4d warms up the baffer
21:39:43 <Meeh_> sign in, check if your pw work, tell me if not and I make sure you can sudo
21:39:55 * str4d ***bafs the meeting closed
21:40:13 * RN dances a thanks for a good meeting dance

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I2P dev meeting, November 18, 2014 @ 20:00 UTC
==============================================
Quick recap
-----------
* **Present:**
dg,
eche|on,
Meeh,
orignal,
psi,
RN,
str4d,
zzz,
Full log is partly reconstructed from scrollback, iRelay dropped in and out early on.

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20:04:39 <str4d> Yo
20:04:44 <str4d> It's meeting time
20:06:47 <str4d> zzz, psi, kytv, Meeh, dg
20:07:30 <psi> it is?
20:07:39 <psi> ah tuesday
20:09:03 <zzz> present
20:09:48 <orignal> meeting?
20:10:11 <str4d> orignal: discussing Java I2P's todo list
20:10:35 <str4d> While we wait for others to show up: http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/Roadmaps/1.0
20:10:41 <kytv> Present as well, though I'm usually useless when it comes to these things.
20:11:37 <str4d> I have adjusted the Gantt chart on the page above (that I set up for the 0.9.13-0.9.16 dev cycle) to show what I think we did.
20:13:30 <zzz> interesting
20:14:06 <zzz> multiple dests per tunnel <-- hasn't happened
20:14:22 <str4d> Hasn't? Okay, my bad.
20:14:27 <zzz> findbugs pass <-- has happened, but can always do it again
20:14:56 <str4d> Multi-sessions per I2CP - that hasn't happened either *derp*
20:14:56 * str4d fixes
20:15:48 <zzz> wow, we had a good year (imho)
20:16:38 <eche|on> yes, we had
20:17:14 <str4d> zzz: yeah, I called it part of the audit prep specifically, but you are right.
20:17:39 <zzz> investigate new DH <---- I would say only half done, w.r.t NTCP2 anyway
20:20:26 <str4d> Gantt doesn't easily show half-done :P
20:20:34 <str4d> Reload page, fixes
20:21:36 <str4d> Okay, so that is what we got done last cycle.
20:21:36 <zzz> not done then
20:23:45 <str4d> The purpose of this meeting is to start planning what is to be done next cycle.
20:23:46 <zzz> I would like to reiterate that a 3-5 release planning cycle seems to be very helpful in focusing our minds and our resources
20:23:47 <str4d> (When I update the Gantt chart, I will leave the half-done ones there and push them forward)
20:23:47 <str4d> At the previous meeting I asked attendees to come up with a few points each of things they want to see done on I2P, and around I2P
20:23:47 <str4d> Please can we paste those now?
20:24:21 <str4d> +1
20:24:36 <str4d> And now we have evidence for it!
20:26:15 <zzz> without getting into what's more important than what, I think almost everything that's shown and unfinished on the gantt chart is still important
20:27:01 <str4d> I agree.
20:27:07 <str4d> I still want to see what ideas people came up with over the last week, if any.
20:27:45 <str4d> Here's mine: http://pastethis.i2p/show/jF2RkHwrIPkCb0yOpI7l/
20:27:46 <iRelay> Title: Paste #jF2RkHwrIPkCb0yOpI7l | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p)
20:28:07 <eche|on> I am out of options, I do see to get I2P out, with the help of bote android, i2p messenger is a option, a XMPP server, and syndie. Sorry, I still see syndie important.
20:28:27 <str4d> eche|on: great, thanks!
20:28:43 <str4d> Keep 'em coming :)
20:28:53 <eche|on> and with the android app there come restricted routes
20:28:54 <zzz> my list of new things: solving the red hat ECDSA problem, migrating to EdDSA, Jetty 9 / Java 7, expand the Vuze userbase, and more marketing / outreach / partnerships / embedding
20:29:36 <str4d> For logging perpetuity, I will write my ideas here too:
20:30:11 <str4d> Todo in I2P: Routerconsole UX analysis and redesign; Take ideas from Tor's HS 2.0 design and apply to I2P Destinations; Bandwidth scheduling. Todo around I2P: Website theme improvements; Implement I2P-Bote fetching relays; Research
20:30:23 <zzz> another one: orchid: fix it or kill it
20:30:32 <str4d> +100
20:31:13 <kytv> WRT the RedHat/Gentoo ECDSDA problem, maybe we could/should display a message in the sidebar (or logs) with a download link. Or maybe ask the user if 'we' should download it into ./lib
20:31:35 <zzz> another one: test improvements, test hardware, windows testing
20:31:58 <str4d> kytv: nice ideas (but discussing them can wait for another meeting :)
20:32:03 <zzz> another one: spend more money
20:32:36 <zzz> another one: China
20:32:58 <str4d> Between these ideas and the not-completed list on the page above, we have a good pool of potential projects.
20:33:34 <str4d> My goal is to get these projects tidied up, formalized and published on the website's todo page
20:34:11 <str4d> Having poked around other projects' todo pages, this is the format I am proposing:
20:34:11 <str4d> http://pastethis.i2p/show/nvexU3ZvSFOI6L5DrrqM/
20:34:12 <iRelay> Title: Paste #nvexU3ZvSFOI6L5DrrqM | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p)
20:34:54 <eche|on> nice idea
20:35:10 <kytv> Ditto on Orchid
20:35:10 <kytv> My main "TODO around I2P" is with regards to testing. Not automated testing with software, per se, but any of our services going live without any sort of testing...just [poof], "it's live...dunno if it works though."
20:35:12 <kytv> In I2P: Making the Installer install to the user directory in Windows to avoid any sort of permissions problems. It should be easy, but I don't know how.
20:35:16 <kytv> Chrome did that (maybe still does it?)
20:35:41 <str4d> My ideal end result: users can go to the todo page and find a list of all the ideas we have for projects in and around I2P.
20:36:11 <zzz> another one: GSoC
20:36:14 <str4d> There will be a tag cloud up the top that they can click on to filter projects that require certain skils
20:36:17 <str4d> skills
20:36:21 <zzz> another one: summertime meetup
20:37:54 <zzz> another one: GNS investigation 2nd pass?
20:38:28 <str4d> mmm
20:38:54 <zzz> or maybe, just another discussion w/ those guys will do
20:39:09 <str4d> Right now, I am going to cull from the Gantt the tasks we have completed.
20:39:27 <zzz> can you save it and start a new one?
20:39:29 <str4d> zzz: which of the bottom few have been completed (SSU replay detection etc.)?
20:39:38 <str4d> Sure, I can.
20:39:49 <zzz> it's kinda nice to show that we actually accomplish things
20:40:19 <eche|on> zzz: most of the stuff was done by you IMHO
20:40:35 <EinMByte> id I miss the meeting?
20:40:37 <zzz> I think I've reported everything that was on the wrong side of completed or not
20:42:39 <str4d> New chart up
20:43:55 <str4d> zzz: which of the three down the bottom should be pushed forward? I think client locking is still an issue?
20:43:59 <zzz> I'd like to see much more planning and focus on the non-coding things in the next few months. Far too many things are either quite disorganized or not happening in anything approaching a disciplined or steady pace
20:44:09 <str4d> (client tunnel locking)
20:44:18 <str4d> zzz: I agree.
20:44:34 <str4d> This will IMHO be helped by working on the todo page.
20:44:56 <str4d> If we can explain the non-coding projects in a way that newcomers can understand and do, it also helps us.
20:44:59 <zzz> not 100% sure atm what that client locking item is, but i think it's still unfinished
20:45:08 <str4d> (Likewise for coding projects)
20:45:32 <zzz> yup
20:45:53 * str4d pushes streaming improvements forward too
20:46:03 <str4d> Can I cut SSU session replay detection then?
20:46:04 <dg> Do you mean the duplicate issues?
20:46:18 <dg> The way we'd get tunnels that don't unregister from I2PTunnel, and won't allow new ones? That sort of thing?
20:46:30 <zzz> str4d, I'll have to get back to you re: SSU replay, not sure atm
20:46:45 <dg> I'd like to see less tunnel death rather than throughput
20:46:59 <str4d> dg: that might be it. There is also the separate issue of the I2PTunnel startup locking the UI
20:47:29 <zzz> put 'tunnel death' on there as a new item, why not
20:48:01 <dg> str4d: Forgot about that!
20:48:03 <str4d> k
20:48:39 <zzz> I think the locking thing I have some unchecked in code for, been dragging along for 18 months or so, but still not right
20:48:40 <str4d> Next: look through the ideas above. Which ones should go on *our* 6-month sheet (ie. which should I add to Gantt)?
20:50:16 <psi> EinMByte: meeting in progress
20:50:21 <psi> (no)
20:51:51 <zzz> I suggest everything go on there for now, then we later talk about priorities, or let the gantt dependencies tell us what to do next?
20:52:52 <str4d> mmk
20:53:04 * str4d is pulling out the list from above and tidying it up now
20:53:08 <EinMByte> psi: oh great.
20:54:08 <psi> potential item: benchmark tunnel throughput and message drop rates
20:54:26 <str4d> EinMByte: do you have any ideas for our todo list?
20:55:15 <EinMByte> NTCP2, possibly. Although it would be long term
20:56:39 <str4d> EinMByte: for reference: http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/Roadmaps/1.0
20:56:53 <EinMByte> thanks
20:57:04 <EinMByte> (was about to ask)
21:00:23 <str4d> Here is the list of everyone's ideas:
21:00:24 <str4d> http://pastethis.i2p/show/K0fGRb2708ADbCTZ9u9K/
21:00:25 <iRelay> Title: Paste #K0fGRb2708ADbCTZ9u9K | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p)
21:01:01 <str4d> Nearly all of these can be turned into projects for the website todo page.
21:01:36 <str4d> Next discussion topic: which of these (and the ones on the Gantt currently) are more important for us to do in the next six months?
21:02:48 <psi> restricted routes is probably the most important item IMO
21:02:50 <EinMByte> with respect to syndie, maybe: I was working on this plugin - no time now though). This might be one of the things that can (?) bring more attention to syndie.
21:03:20 <dg> str4d: Tunnel death is absent and I feel that's quite important
21:03:37 <EinMByte> If anyone is interested in doing firefox / icedove plugin development: you know what to do
21:03:37 <str4d> dg: it's there (tunnel thread locking)
21:03:41 <str4d> I thought that's what it was
21:03:49 <dg> oh, sorry str4d, I meant when connections are abruptly terminated
21:03:54 <dg> my bad
21:04:04 <str4d> Ah, k
21:04:55 <EinMByte> psi: I agree restricted routes are important. But I also think we should realize that it will take quite some time to implement
21:05:21 <EinMByte> (not sure how much of the design / concept has been done)
21:05:35 <dg> In I2P: restricted routes, RedHat's ECDSA issues, Tor's HS 2.0, then the rest. Around I2P: Vuze userbase, GSoC, research, benchmark, then the rest.
21:06:04 <dg> I agree with EinMByte.. the router console redesign is important but that could take an indeterminate amount of time.
21:07:15 <EinMByte> str4d: one more thing, possibly. I know some reasearchers who have developed a new concept for a DWSE (distributed web search engine), they might be interested in developing this as an I2P application
21:07:42 <str4d> EinMByte: nice!
21:07:49 <EinMByte> Since most DWSEs right now don't really work well, it would be very interesting to have this IMHO
21:08:01 <zzz> no, by 'tunnel death' I meant 3-minute tunnel breakage, the Vuze guy's datagram test, etc. Distinct from local i2ptunnel locking issues.
21:08:07 <EinMByte> It's also something I would consider implementing
21:08:20 <dg> I wasn't thinking of precisely 3-minute but that was included.
21:08:34 <EinMByte> (with help, hopefully)
21:09:03 <str4d> k, reload Gantt page
21:10:34 <EinMByte> str4d: anyway don't count on this too much, it depends on whether I2P users are actually interested in something like this.
21:11:14 <EinMByte> Also, I'm not sure about the GNS stuff. In any case it shouldn't have a high priority.
21:11:56 <str4d> Updated new ideas paste: http://pastethis.i2p/show/1qxHbkWjD27N7SdzNJZL/
21:11:57 <iRelay> Title: Paste #1qxHbkWjD27N7SdzNJZL | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p)
21:12:35 <zzz> i'd say 4 broad categories are the highest importance: 1) near-term crypto migration continuing (addressbook, muiltidest, etc) 2) longer-term crypto planning/research (DH, LS2, NTCP2) 3) all things testing 4) all things non-coding
21:13:48 <EinMByte> zzz: is that in order of importance?
21:14:05 <str4d> ECDSA issues fall into the first category; Tor HS 2.0 falls into the second category.
21:14:21 <zzz> no. roughly equal importance
21:14:44 <str4d> So the only item not represented in those categories is restricted routes
21:15:28 <jenkins@kyirc> Starting build #556 for job i2pd (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:15:30 <jenkins@kyirc> Project i2pd build #556: SUCCESS in 8.2 sec: http://jenkins.killyourtv.i2p/job/i2pd/556/
21:15:31 <jenkins@kyirc> * orignal: eliminated NTCPServerConnection
21:15:32 <jenkins@kyirc> * orignal: moved NTCP client code to Transports
21:16:34 <EinMByte> maybe NTCP2 is not *that* important
21:16:50 <zzz> and the reason I grouped them like that and say equal priority is that it's probably 4 separate groups of people for those 4 categories that could each make progress
21:17:08 <EinMByte> or, at least before we can start propertly on the NTCP2 we need to do a lot of research, also answer a few very important questions
21:17:33 <jenkins@kyirc> Project i2pd (Linux x86) build #33: SUCCESS in 1 min 47 sec: http://jenkins.killyourtv.i2p/job/i2pd%20(Linux%20x86)/33/
21:17:44 <EinMByte> zzz: indeed
21:17:51 <JekabsR> it is interesting that i2p network tends to bring all fast routers together
21:17:58 <jenkins@kyirc> Starting build #33 for job i2pd (Linux x64)
21:18:03 <zzz> right. "NTCP2" is just shorthand for a bunch of stuff that may or may not actually result in something called "NTCP2"
21:18:34 <JekabsR> and they do not prefer slow routers
21:18:40 <EinMByte> Yes. In any case if we change the transport layers it's extremely important not to make mistakes, as that would probably break I2P entirely.
21:19:19 <psi> JekabsR: slower routers are still used just not as much
21:19:43 <jenkins@kyirc> Project i2pd (Linux x64) build #33: SUCCESS in 1 min 52 sec: http://jenkins.killyourtv.i2p/job/i2pd%20(Linux%20x64)/33/
21:20:05 <EinMByte> zzz: if 2 is "research", then you are right though
21:20:33 <EinMByte> it can be done simultaneously
21:21:52 * str4d is reworking the Gantt into these four categories (plus an Other category)
21:22:12 <JekabsR> but there is a problem - client like destinations rarely get fast router connections
21:22:40 <eche|on> no?
21:22:46 <psi> JekabsR: not entirely sure if that is accurate
21:23:46 <zzz> str4d, did we forget Android, or is that a separate roadmap?
21:23:59 <str4d> zzz: we have forgotten it
21:24:01 <eche|on> JekabsR: hidden mode routers do have some issues, but other do get fast connections, as enough fast routers are available and do have free capacity
21:24:26 <str4d> Technically I2P Android falls into the "in I2P" category
21:24:35 <psi> oh another reasearch question: how much capacity does i2p actually have right now?
21:25:14 <zzz> maybe a 5th category for android makes more sense
21:25:46 <zzz> but I'm not hung up on categories. I just mentioned the 4 as a quick way to communicate what I think is important
21:25:54 <JekabsR> because they tend to create small number of really fast connections and large number of slow connections
21:26:11 <dg> [citation needed]
21:26:15 <JekabsR> my router started to drop slow tunnels
21:26:24 <str4d> zzz: I think it was a good idea
21:26:56 <str4d> Refresh Gantt page now
21:27:07 <eche|on> JekabsR: https://geti2p.net/_static/pdf/I2P-PET-CON-2009.1.pdf
21:30:12 <eche|on> JekabsR: tunnels are dropped only on end of tunnel lifetime and if own tunnels need the capacity.
21:30:29 <str4d> If you refresh http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/Roadmaps/1.0 you will now see the headings, each with a six-month bar. This gives an indication of how much time there is to fit everything in.
21:32:43 <str4d> Now that we have some ideas for the next six months, we need to start planning times.
21:33:18 <str4d> And who is going to tackle what.
21:33:52 <JekabsR> my console frequently reports that it has too many incoming connections and tunnels are partially rejected. How i2p decides which one to reject?
21:34:08 <dg> 'too many incoming connections'?
21:34:21 <dg> JekabsR: a meeting is currently ongoing, you may want to wait until it's over
21:35:00 <str4d> I would also like some volunteers to help turn the list of ideas into a working projects page on the website todo
21:35:12 <JekabsR> NTCP connections: 425. Limit: 425. Timeout: 2 min.
21:35:30 <JekabsR> UDP connections: 1149. Limit: 1275. Timeout: 4 min.
21:36:14 <JekabsR> limits are hit
21:37:42 <JekabsR> router is using 80% of CPU power
21:38:23 <str4d> Anyone?
21:39:36 <kytv> JekabsR: 1) meeting underway, you may want to wait; 2) look at http://127.0.0.1:7657/peers#help
21:41:16 <JekabsR> kytv: will check it out
21:41:44 <zzz> str4d, i think you lost everybody after an hour 45. Maybe declare victory for now and we'll make more progress at another time?
21:41:45 <str4d> Let's try some more specific questions.
21:41:52 <str4d> Or that./
21:41:55 <JekabsR> 330,0 / 342,4 KBps my current load
21:42:06 <str4d> Yah, we have definitely made good progress.
21:42:30 <JekabsR> and torrent uploads at 2 - 5kb speed :(
21:44:17 <str4d> Thanks for the discussions, everyone!
21:44:20 * str4d warms up the baffer
21:44:20 * str4d ***bafs the meeting closed

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I2P dev meeting, November 25, 2014 @ 20:00 UTC
==============================================
Quick recap
-----------
* **Present:**
dg,
eche|on,
EinMByte,
JekabsR,
kytv,
orignal,
psi,
str4d,
zzz,