20:00:54 http://zzz.i2p/topics/1490 - 15 minutes max per item, 5 minutes for brief items 20:00:54 0) hi 20:00:54 1) http://salt.i2p console home page request (carried over from Sept. 10 meeting) 20:00:55 2) http://no.i2p services request (Meeh) 20:00:55 2a) Add to default i2ptunnel jump list 20:00:55 2b) Add to recommended addressbook subscriptions on FAQ 20:00:57 2c) Add to registration help text on eepsite help 20:00:59 3) Additional backup release signer - Need new su3 keys, HH hasn't added his yet, do we need another person? 20:01:02 4) Console home page icons needed http://zzz.i2p/topics/1492 (brief) 20:01:04 5) Website revamp (str4d) (brief) 20:01:08 6) Trac update - thanks to Meeh and kytv (brief) 20:01:09 Title: zzz.i2p: Meeting Tues. Oct. 22 8 PM UTC (at zzz.i2p) 20:01:10 7) Allow marketplaces on eepsite registration services? (zab) 20:01:13 0) hi 20:01:14 1) http://salt.i2p console home page request (carried over from Sept. 10 meeting) 20:01:18 hi 20:01:18 Title: salted (at salt.i2p) 20:01:20 efkt_: 20:01:25 efkt_, are you here? 20:01:25 +1 for salt 20:01:36 Title: no.i2p registration service (at no.i2p) 20:01:37 Hi everyone. Yes I'm here. 20:01:41 Title: zzz.i2p: Console Home Page Icons (at zzz.i2p) 20:01:44 Title: salted (at salt.i2p) 20:02:20 +1 for salt 20:02:38 +1 for salt 20:02:43 I only have one question - where does the name come from,does it mean "salt" or does it stand for something? should it be translated? 20:03:00 Salt's a great community resource and efkt_ is extremely welcoming. I don't have a bad word to say about him :) 20:04:26 zzz: It really doesn't stand for anything. Unfortunately some security-thing startup recently opted to use "Salt" as well. The idea behind the name was: NaCl crypto, salted hashes as the "thematic choice" 20:05:07 Just having fun is all. 20:05:38 It leads to a lot of questions "what the hell is salt?" Why salt? 20:07:44 As for translation, I don't see that it would be useful to call it something other than what is used for the short url 20:07:47 so would we translate it in the console or not? 20:07:57 +1 for salt 20:08:51 "take everything you read on I2P with a pinch of salt" 20:09:09 hah 20:09:19 Haha. RN has ceaseless salt jokes. 20:11:36 ok. I noticed the icon you submitted doesn't have a transparent part. It might look better if it did. Or maybe not. May depend on the theme 20:11:36 if you're happy with the icon it's fine I guess 20:11:36 hearing no objections I think that's it for 1). I'll check it in. 20:11:36 moving on to 2) no.i2p - is Meeh here? 20:11:42 Perhaps it should be translated. 20:17:33 in the short term, only generating a public key, storing your private key somewhere safe, and checking it in 20:17:53 if me and kytv get hit by a bus, then you would be the one building and signing the releaase 20:18:07 which is basically running 'ant release' 20:18:08 I can do it also then. I won't be able to take responsibility for writing code though. 20:18:33 writing release notes, distributing the files, starting torrents, writing the news are all related activities 20:18:34 So, please look both ways before crossing! 20:19:00 basically you'd be a packager / release manager 20:19:23 yeah, I can do this. 20:19:41 I think str4d would be well-suited 20:20:40 dg have you done much with monotone? do you have checkin privs now? 20:21:14 zzz: I've not had checkin privs to i2p.i2p and I'm not a mtn pro. I get it enough to use it but advanced trickery is beyond me. 20:21:22 If str4d is more appropriate, that's fine. 20:21:50 other acks/nacks on str4d ? 20:29:18 ffs, I'll relay: 20:30:12 http://pastethis.i2p/show/5965 20:30:13 Title: Paste #5965 | LodgeIt! (at pastethis.i2p) 20:30:14 bah 20:30:32 welcome back 20:30:43 ok 20:30:44 repost 20:30:50 hearing no objection let's welcome str4d as our newest backup release signer 20:30:55 str4d, kytv or I can help you generate your keys and check them in 20:31:03 excellent. I'm always worried about the bus. 20:31:06 4) Console home page icons needed http://zzz.i2p/topics/1492 (brief) 20:31:12 just wanted to mention the icons thing here, to highlight postman badger sponge eche|on kytv et al 20:31:20 Title: zzz.i2p: Console Home Page Icons (at zzz.i2p) 20:31:41 pick or design an icon or we will pick one for you 20:32:01 you have a couple weeks 20:32:17 thanks to str4d for his detailed post on what is in fux 20:32:32 anybody else have anything to say about this? 20:32:49 * kytv is indifferent 20:33:11 ok moving on 20:33:11 it'd be nice to have a prettier set of icons. I like the fux set. that's all. 20:33:12 5) Website revamp (str4d) (brief) 20:33:33 str4d, what's the status and what's blocking progress? 20:33:57 Status: .py files are not updating for some reason (they were) 20:34:22 When a .py file updates, the webserver needs to be restarted, but the script to do that has stopped working. 20:34:46 Other than that, not much. 20:35:28 CSS issues were shown on IE, it looks like on the frontpage the BG image is not displaying, but I can't test. 20:35:28 you need welterde_ or just time? 20:35:33 revamp site has issues with IE{7,8}. IE9 is untested. I don't know if we care about that. 20:35:57 IE10 works fine so I'm inclined to not worry about the older versions 20:36:05 On non-frontpage pages, IE{7,8} is terrible. 20:36:49 But that is not really a blocker. 20:37:02 wrt content, is everyone happy with the front page as-is? 20:37:13 ok. just would love to see us get past the finish line on this. On Sept. 1st on tx, you announced it would go live in a week :) 20:37:20 yes, str4d 20:37:53 zzz: yea, shortly after that I discovered the .py problem and ran out of time to fix. 20:38:20 ok thx for the update str4d. anything else on 5) ? 20:38:22 If .py -> restart is not working, then welterde_ (and every mirror operator) need to manually restart every time. 20:38:33 A few minor points: 20:38:55 When updating for a release, there are two locations to change: 20:39:16 i2p2www/__init__.py - CURRENT_I2P_VERSION 20:39:38 and i2p2www/pages/downloads/list.html - the hashes at the top. 20:39:50 maybe I can cut you short, no use training me until I need it, as I will ask again... 20:40:07 zzz: fair enough. But that ^ is it. 20:40:30 tl;dr - as soon as the .py problem is fixed, it is safe for live. 20:40:31 ok, I'll copypasta it, might lose it, might not. 20:41:01 (mine's updating/restarting FWIW (http://geti2pj2fl72u4m2.onion/ / http://kfri3jwfsi2uy7j3pbzykbbaoqoj4siyhf3hozln3wxcrkvvityq.b32.i2p/)) 20:41:04 Title: I2P Anonymous Network (at geti2pj2fl72u4m2.onion) 20:41:16 ok then let's ask welterde_ to help out here 20:41:49 ok thx for the update str4d. anything else on 5) ? 20:42:06 It's *much* simpler than current :-P 20:42:13 kytv: thanks - which script? 20:42:16 (but I'm done with 5) 20:42:25 bah. I got my sed script :) 20:42:25 Oh, one other point: 20:42:34 6) Trac update - thanks to Meeh and kytv (brief) 20:42:40 I want us to think about the /research page 20:42:42 (yw) 20:43:11 Just putting the thought out. 20:43:32 str4d: it's a modification of the one in i2p.www.revamp that I made for future appliance. I can pastebin it later. 20:43:35 I just put this on the agenda to thank kytv and his helpers Meeh and welterde_ for moving, hosting, upgrading, managing, etc and getting it back up 20:43:54 * dg thanks 20:44:18 kytv++ 20:44:20 it's an important resource that got hammered by spam and then disabled by me and then broken by kytv, but we won't mention that part since we're thanking him... 20:44:41 bwahaha 20:44:52 * str4d had plans to help, until kytv sabotaged those plans and took the glory for himself ;-P 20:45:17 oh yeah sorry str4d you did do quite a lot too in the early stages 20:45:42 ok enough of that, back to the beatings 20:45:47 7) Allow marketplaces on eepsite registration services? (zab) 20:46:18 I have 3 of them in the stats.i2p queue, everybody piling in after the silk road thing 20:46:49 Enforcing this is not trivial - we only know if the person registering makes it obvious in the domain or the about description. 20:46:51 I don't think anybody will target $registrar for saying yes 20:46:53 we had several silkroad* registrations last year, I approved them at the time, none were around for long 20:46:57 sorry I'm late, but here now 20:47:15 Meeh will be back to you shortly, we are on 7) 20:47:21 np 20:47:52 zab what would you like to say about this 20:48:00 ^^ topiltzin 20:48:00 In the interest of full disclosure, I have significant investment in bitcoin. So I'm naturally supportive of anything that promotes use of bitcoin 20:48:00 enforcing is never a sure thing 20:48:26 in fact, part of the reason I'm working on i2p is to prepare for a possible future where anonymous marketplaces cannot use tor anymore 20:48:42 20:49:03 I could reject either on 1) its illegal 2) brings attention we dont need or 3) i2p really isnt safe enough for markets 20:49:13 but all those are shaky reasons 20:49:18 If 3), I don't know what we are safe for 20:49:21 But on the assumption that we can discover which domains are for marketplaces: 20:49:22 topiltzin ^ 20:49:35 I don't agree with ever saying "Hey, $group, come to us! We're like, safe and things!" but a little confidence is good too 20:49:49 as regards public perception, policies can help, even if they aren't perfectly enforcible, imo 20:50:01 3) is something the operators of the marketplaces need to decide for themselves 20:50:45 I agree with you there topiltzin, the operators choose 20:50:46 if 2) will happen it will happen regardless of addressbook policy 20:50:49 fyi the three I'm sitting on are silkroadreloaded.i2p, market.i2p, and freemart.i2p - you can jump to all thru stats.i2p 20:51:02 still unable to figure out why restart is not working? 20:51:35 (just arrived) 20:52:00 re 1) - that's the interesting one. I suggest the following policy: if a market place advertises $ILLEGAL_ACTIVITY then it does not indexed 20:52:08 welterde_: I haven't had time to investigate it. 20:52:18 but a market that simply says "anonymous marketplace" should not be banned automatically 20:52:28 ic 20:52:32 +1 on re 1) 20:52:34 most things here are anonymous 20:52:40 fwiw I think its reasonable to not outright ban all marketplaces and use a case-by-case basis, disallowing support for those who wish to use stats.i2p for drugs, assassination, arms, etc focusing on what is unsavory and not neccessarily what is illegal. 20:52:45 I think topiltzin's suggestion is a reasonable compromise, fwiw 20:52:59 stats.i2p is a voluntary service, not an "official" addressbook. 20:53:14 I find it hard to get too worked up about drugs. If they're advertising CP or contract killings that's another story. 20:53:27 * dg nods 20:53:35 Mmm. 20:53:43 str4d: it's still linked on the router console, which would be considered a tacit endorsement by many 20:53:51 agreed 20:54:00 IMHO the standard sort of T&C we require for routerconsole would be fine. 20:54:13 Pseudonemo: A link to a site that doesnt' really link to but can be contacted for info on a site people MAY not like? no 20:54:32 fair enough 20:54:43 I thnk I'll treat markets like forums and torrent sites, i.e. post a TOS and then I'll decide 20:54:48 (but that does not mean that a marketplace would be accepted for routerconsole, that is a separate decision) 20:56:05 that's fine. It would help if you publish some guidelines on what will NOT get indexed 20:56:12 thanks guys for your thoughts. this is more my problem than a project issue and I needed some advice. 20:57:07 if you feel uneasy about it, you are within your rights not to allow them zzz 20:57:24 but i think it's ok as long as it's not crossing any moral lines 20:57:54 it's all on http://stats.i2p/i2p/addkey.html - I guess I would just add 'markets' to the line about forums, trackers, file + image hosts... 20:57:54 ok enough on 7) 20:57:54 back around to: 20:57:54 2) http://no.i2p services request (Meeh) 20:57:54 2a) Add to default i2ptunnel jump list 20:57:54 2b) Add to recommended addressbook subscriptions on FAQ 20:57:56 2c) Add to registration help text on eepsite help 20:58:08 Title: Add a Key (at stats.i2p) 20:58:13 take it away Meeh what you got for us? 20:58:24 Title: no.i2p registration service (at no.i2p) 20:59:06 well, I've setup a registration service with a TOS somewhat the same as stats.i2p, to help "decentralize" the naming service in I2P if needed 20:59:16 ping Meeh 20:59:36 doesn't my messages get trough? 21:01:45 I hear ya 21:01:45 ok good, I checked freenode so iRelay does too 21:01:45 got it, lag 21:01:45 yeah we really need more of everything and my registration service really stands out by itself 21:01:45 just checked, I set it up in January of 2008 after orion.i2p vanished (snif) 21:02:08 yupp, so that's why I added it, to help "decentralize" it if needed 21:02:27 slow's inr.i2p service is great but his anything-goes policy isn't compatible with ours 21:02:40 other than that I haven't thought much on it, so if people want to contribute with ideas, go ahead 21:02:51 if you can work together on his software base, but have something managed, that's great 21:04:56 fwiw, inr.i2p is a thing. 21:05:24 anybody reviewed Meeh's TOS or have any thoughts? 21:05:24 I looked briefly, looked like copy-pasta of yours 21:05:24 yes, I will publish my changes. I've updated it to django 1.5 and added export-alive.txt "view" support 21:05:24 +1 on no.i2p based on nothing but general Meeh awesomeness :) 21:05:24 topiltzin: yes, it was copy paste :P 21:05:24 well, Meeh actually you have two pastas. one of slow's on no.i2p and one of mine on no.i2p/tos/ 21:05:24 I wrote some myself, and copied most of it, to make it as close to the official rules as possible, since I guessed zzz followed them closely 21:05:24 yea, a mix 21:05:24 can change it ofc 21:05:26 +1 for no.i2p. Giving people more jump links and subscriptions is a plus. If there will be more sites registered with no.i2p I think it would be helpful to inform existing userbase about such a change. 21:05:45 I didn't remove the policies that was "acceptable" from the original source 21:05:46 is it confusing to have overlapping stuff in two places? 21:05:51 actually 3 with /postkey/ 21:06:21 ok, I should fix that. but question is then, which is the best? 21:06:30 or, the most agreeable 21:06:37 which I can work more on 21:06:40 speaking from experience you have to shout the TOS loud and clear 21:07:17 fyi I'm getting about 75/month and rejecting about 3-5/month 21:07:54 any objections to 2a) or 2b) or 2c) ? 21:08:16 if not Meeh please do all the checkins yourself 21:08:23 ok, I get about 1-2 a week, but often they double register 21:08:26 both with you and me 21:08:32 for example silkroadreloaded 21:09:02 anybody have anything else while I warm up the baffer? 21:10:21 zzz: dg: kytv: topiltzin: str4d: Thank you. It means a lot to have support. 21:10:56 Maybe we should talk about the roadmap next time and our plans. 21:10:56 hosting for our downloads, unless there's already a plan, needs to be fleshed out. 21:10:56 ok. Then we say add to trunk? (no.i2p) 21:10:56 seems like we're on a new topic already :P 21:10:56 +1 for no.i2p (yes, add to trunk) 21:11:05 oh, I'll note that I wrote down some rather obvious meeting policies on http://zzz.i2p/topics/1491 to make it clear anybody can schedule a meeting for anything at any time 21:11:20 Title: zzz.i2p: Project Meetings (at zzz.i2p) 21:11:25 efkt_: No problem. You're great! 21:11:38 yeah, downloads and roadmap may be good for a future meeting 21:11:53 nothing for now from me 21:11:59 * zzz emphatically ***BAFS*** the meeting closed 21:12:12 :)