diff --git a/i2p2www/meetings/logs/238.log b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/238.log new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f8e5372c --- /dev/null +++ b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/238.log @@ -0,0 +1,597 @@ +20:01:40 0) Hi +20:01:40 1) I2PCon: Status update +20:01:40 2) I2PCon: Liqueur license ($25) +20:01:40 3) I2PCon: Allow photos without explicit consent? +20:01:40 4) I2PCon: Allow videos? +20:01:40 5) I2PCon: Arrange schedule of event +20:01:43 6) dogecoindark.i2p home page request +20:01:54 aloha! Nice to be here with you all today. +20:02:02 o/ +20:02:07 Hi +20:02:13 ***** 0) ***** +20:02:19 Hello@all +20:02:36 Does anyone have any questions or anything that should be added to the agenda? +20:02:43 hi +20:03:00 hi +20:03:00 Hi +20:03:01 Do we have a livestream? (for con) +20:03:15 * RN has input for #3 but will wait till it comes up +20:03:31 EinMByte: sounds like talk for #4 +20:03:38 EinMByte, no. nothing like that has been organized. let's add that discussion to 4) +20:03:46 anything else? +20:03:49 ok +20:04:04 one thing +20:04:06 donations +20:04:15 I was talking with dnj about donations at i2pcon +20:04:22 not sure how we're handling that +20:04:25 we should hash that out today. +20:04:40 let's add that as 7) +20:05:08 ok. +20:05:13 **** 1) **** +20:05:19 1) I2PCon: Status update +20:05:37 So.. the current status is that we're finalizing most aspects of the event. +20:06:00 We have all of our speakers verified. +20:06:16 The next step is constructing a schedule +20:06:27 And lastly making a 2nd announcement +20:06:48 How many participants do we have right now? Do we know that? +20:06:52 Containing more details, like schedule and whatever else might be useful. +20:07:06 Do we have a webpage? Do we need one? +20:07:07 EinMByte, that is a good question. And something chlorelium has brought up. +20:07:19 Hacklab can seat 40people +20:07:21 Like a page on geti2pNet +20:07:32 s/geti2pNet/geti2p.net +20:07:42 EinMByte, I've voted against making a website due to the amount of work that would entail. +20:07:44 hottuna: actually got a revised number, it 48 chairs, though it's a squeze +20:08:28 So speaking of the number of attendees, chlorelium requested that we try to keep track of the number somehow,. +20:08:39 hottuna: well, an enitre website might be a little bit too much. But at least a page with the information? +20:08:44 The current idea is an evenbrite page where people can sign up. +20:09:11 EinMByte: I was thinking an Eventbrite page. Mostly I don't want a situation where we seat 48 people and 200 show up :) +20:09:30 Hacklab has an eventbrite account, I can set something up shortly. +20:09:39 hottuna: whatever is used, it should be made sure it doesn't block tor connections. I am sure most people would like to sign up over it. +20:10:03 Could we squeeze more than 48 people in there if some are left to stand? +20:10:03 chlorelium: well, you can always give people a token that they need to show on entrance +20:10:11 Just to give us some margins +20:10:16 \o. +20:10:31 EinMByte, we have the announcment, and we're going to make another annoucnement in the smae style as the first +20:10:37 hottuna: yes, it's standing room for probably 80+ +20:10:53 lazygravy: noted re: TOR +20:10:56 other than that I don't have any volunteers for building a webpage. +20:11:44 EinMByte: eventbrite generates "tickets"; doesn't need real name or real phone # though, it can be anonymous signup through tor with throwaway email +20:11:50 EinMByte: so that can be the token of sorts +20:12:02 it sounds pretty good. +20:12:16 That's good. Eventbrite seems good. But we should probably link to it on the I2P website +20:12:29 (can be in a blog entry I suppose) +20:12:43 EinMByte, we will on the second announcement and probably from the first one too. +20:12:54 ok +20:12:58 it's only there to give us an estimate of the number of participants +20:12:59 mmm... I suppose an I2P internal mirror of event brite would be a bit much... +20:13:21 RN: unlikely though somebody (I?) could ask. depends on how big they are, and if we have any contacts +20:13:35 :P +20:13:38 that's being pretty optimistic +20:13:56 we're also working on a flyer for the event +20:13:56 yeah, put that in the notes for "next time" +20:14:09 So cholerlium, you set up the eventbrite page? +20:14:18 i was hoping to have an early version of it ready now, but will likely get to see it later tonight +20:14:19 EinMByte: sure, I'll do that doay +20:14:21 *today +20:14:43 splendid, the sooner we have a link, the sonner we can startp ublishing it +20:14:45 EinMByte: I can at least generate the URL for posting, and we can populate it with content later if need be +20:15:27 Ok, anything else anyone would like to add? +20:15:36 sooner url is generated, sooner if it is tor-friendly can be tested +20:15:38 *chlorelium +20:16:11 Regarding info in the second announcement, ppl may want to know if they'll be able to plug in +20:16:53 z3r0fox: nice catch +20:17:00 z3r0fox: plug in to power, network, or what? +20:17:01 Plug in being Internet access? +20:17:14 power we have :) +20:17:18 Both... +20:17:28 I've used Eventbrite via Tor before, it worked fine for me +20:17:30 (back in 2013 registering for RWC 2014) +20:17:42 thx str4d +20:18:08 so +20:18:12 power: +20:18:17 we have many large power strips +20:18:26 network? wifi? +20:18:31 some of them hang from the ceiling, we could potentially run them under/behing rows of seats +20:18:37 network is mostly through wifi +20:18:51 str4d, thanks +20:18:51 we regularly handle 30+ people on the guest network +20:18:57 we also have piratebox, if anyone cares :) +20:19:21 I'll ask our ops person how many connections the guest network can accomodate before going to shit +20:19:27 ok. so we'll ahve some power at the very least and wifi for ~everyone +20:19:58 yup +20:20:13 this is also a helpful item in getting headcount before-hand +20:20:22 good +20:20:22 we can plan ahead for wireless needs +20:20:27 alright. anything else for 1)? +20:20:30 Somebody a few days ago by the name of 'saltire' messaged me, inquiring about setting up a relay between OFTC and IRC2P for #torontocrypto. He hasn't messaged me since, and #torontocrypto has no relay (just ChanServ and I). Would saltire, or somebody else from the TC side, be able to set one up? +20:20:48 I could probably do it because OFTC allows Tor, but I'd prefer a TC person. +20:21:13 dg, possibly. I know saltire from meatspace. +20:21:24 dg, could we save that until after the meeting? +20:21:28 mmm.... lag? or is network not available...? +20:21:31 hottuna: np +20:21:40 ok +20:21:45 **** 2) **** +20:21:48 2) I2PCon: Liquor license ($25) +20:21:53 We're getting one. +20:21:54 Today. +20:22:03 No worries, we've got this. +20:22:06 paperwork for that is almost filled out, just have to file +20:22:14 :-) +20:22:21 already called the LCBO, they'll have someone there until 9pm EDT to accept our app +20:22:25 and actually the deadline is tomorrow night +20:22:30 is license for consumption, sales, or both? +20:22:37 BYOB? +20:22:38 So with the license there are some obligations we have to fulfill. Like not getting people shitfaced. +20:22:49 zzz, consumption. +20:22:54 lazygravy, no. +20:23:00 license does not allow for sale. It's for consumption only. if we want a sale license the cost jumps to $75 +20:23:11 having a license is not compatible with BYOB +20:23:17 So that means drinks are free? +20:23:18 BYOB is a no-no. BYO is illegal at public events like this +20:23:30 EinMByte, yes. but only a small amount. +20:23:32 * RN pouts about non-attendance "awww man... they'll even have beer!!!" :( +20:23:45 We're talking about 1-2 beers / participant depending on how many show up +20:23:46 (and normally we wouldn't care, but guaranteed gov't types will show up and someone somewhere will complain about a lack of license) +20:23:59 And how generous eche|on is feeling +20:24:06 fine. we have a bucket for donations (topic #7) +20:24:18 We can have more alcohol for sale, but it means pitching in $50 extra for that license +20:24:24 application process is essentially the same, though +20:24:25 hottuna: ok. Do you have some systems for keeping track of who has already had their drink? Or do you think this won't be a problem? +20:24:41 zzz, as long as the donation bucket isn't explicitly for booze we should b efine +20:24:58 EinMByte, not really. but we don't plan on bringing tons. +20:25:02 just FYI: if we take donations at the door and hand out drink tickets, we need a "sale" license since that's viewed as an indirect sale +20:25:26 that doesn't mean we're prohibited from taking donations and giving drink tickets, but we can't do it in that order with a "no sale" license o_0 +20:25:29 liquor laws are silly +20:25:59 hottuna: let's just assume honesty then +20:25:59 EinMByte: I think honesty is a good policy :) +20:25:59 EinMByte, that's the idea. +20:25:59 Anything else on 2)? +20:26:14 just a note +20:26:21 once we get the license (in a week) +20:26:32 we'll have to go to the LCBO with the license to do the purchasing +20:26:45 whomever is bringing alcohol can't just pick up a bunch and then bring it +20:26:58 there's something about the LCBO keeping track of sales +20:27:15 ok. that shouldn't be too much of a problem. +20:27:21 I think they want to make sure you're not buying $1K of beer for a single event :) +20:27:30 the license will probably get mailed to the lab +20:27:35 I can get in touch when it does. +20:27:44 splendid +20:28:07 **** 3) **** +20:28:08 3) I2PCon: Allow photos without explicit consent? +20:28:13 so +20:28:23 Does anyone have a strong opinion? +20:28:31 Hacklab default policy has almost always been "not without explicit consent" +20:28:47 we can suspend that, however there's a good chance there will be members in the space who are not there for the con who might not want their pictures taken +20:29:04 alright, I guess that makes this choice a whole lot easier for us. +20:29:19 We could have colour-coded nametags or something to communicate consent, if people like that idea. +20:29:31 Does anyone have any problems with not allowing photos to be taken? +20:29:41 (without explicit consent) +20:30:26 Does anyone want to add anything to 3)? +20:30:46 3) being photo consent? +20:30:49 I think explicit consent is fine +20:30:52 yes +20:30:53 It'll have to be made clear at the door, because phones +20:31:07 str4d: that method seemed to work good at HOPE. +20:31:10 I agree, some people will not want their picture taken +20:31:20 As long as explicit consent is fine and there's an understanding that people will remove pictures if asked +20:31:23 z3r0fox: sure, we'll make a sign +20:31:27 yes +20:31:33 I missed all of three +20:31:44 excellent +20:31:56 The nametag idea is a nice one. Maybe the Eventbrite page could have a tickbox for consent (yes/no/undecided) +20:32:14 * psi scrolls +20:32:26 str4d: that's been done for non-hacklab events before +20:32:37 str4d: good idea +20:32:39 it doesn't even have to be a nametag, so much as a coloured piece of paper +20:32:46 Nametag with green == fine. Without == must ask. +20:32:50 chlorelium: nice +20:32:53 I have something to add to three and will just spam-paste it about 9 lines... +20:33:07 str4d, chlorelium: i'm not sure I would like to organize all of that I'd rather keep it barebones and like a simple rule +20:33:10 make an itoopie mask that people who don't want to be photographed can hold up in front of their face when picture is taken.... +20:33:10 easier than trusting someone else to photoshop the itoopie mask in later +20:33:10 mascott exposure == good pr | fun | inexpensive +20:33:10 requrired materials (assembly requrired) +20:33:10 paper plates +20:33:11 yellow spray paint +20:33:15 large tounge depressors +20:33:17 staples (that go through wood) or glue/tape +20:33:19 black marker or black paint & brush +20:33:39 RN: If anyone wants make a mask, that would be perfect! +20:33:46 :D +20:33:49 give them out at the door... it starts the conversation about photos +20:33:55 are masks allowed still? +20:33:59 i'm putting it in the sure, why not bin. +20:34:02 like, anti protest laws etc +20:34:12 I imagine it's ok in a private space +20:34:17 we're not protesting. I think. and also indoors. +20:34:26 okay +20:34:27 anyway, can we move on? +20:34:35 **** 4) **** +20:34:35 And it's not a mask as much as a masque +20:34:48 4) I2PCon: Allow videos? +20:34:48 Video livestream? +20:34:58 psi: the mask laws don't apply +20:35:01 Yes yes yes yes yes if somebody is willing to do it. +20:35:07 ianal, but I'm pretty sure of that one :P +20:35:13 Videos / livestream partly ties in to #3 +20:35:18 Will the speakers be okay with this? +20:35:25 Make it clear that it's being recorded and indicate where people can sit if they want to be free from cameras +20:35:26 I don't think we have anyone willing to do all of the video work. +20:35:31 Nor do we have the equipment. +20:35:34 Since the expert videographer couldn't make it, I could set a couple HD cams up to point at the presenters to save the presentations for later. But there were some reervations. +20:35:37 I think we definitely need a lifestream, as I suggested earlier +20:35:37 zzz mentioned something for Twitter +20:35:46 *live +20:35:48 I'm not talking about wearing a mask... but I think we've moved on... +20:35:52 dg: Periscope +20:35:57 str4d: That's it +20:35:59 I propose to just periscope the talks from the @i2p account from my phone. I have a baby tripod and phone mount +20:36:25 a real tripod would be better if anybody can bring one +20:36:29 Does Periscope allow video to be saved, or purely an ephemeral livestream? +20:36:41 is periscope persistant? +20:36:44 dunno +20:36:50 z3r0fox: if I could leave the responsibility of making video happen on your shoulders (including the work afterwards) +20:36:56 I might be able to just dump the stream anyway +20:36:59 i would be pretty happy about it +20:37:15 zzz: Is that something that could be good enough to edit for Youtube? I have 1 tripod, two HD cams, can get another tripod for 2 camera shoot if needed then I'd volunteer to editand put on Youtube or distibute provately, whatever +20:37:26 if not and no one else is stepping up, we're not going to have video. +20:37:50 if we do video we should also have an eventual i2p torrent +20:38:11 z3r0fox: so that means you'd go the full length and organize all of it? +20:38:14 i've just played with periscope for a couple minutes. Not an expert. +20:38:16 * RN agrees with psi +20:38:29 hottuna: Yeah, it's not a big deal, simple edits. I just wouldn't want to lose document of presentations, assuming presenters are okay with being filmed. +20:38:34 If we have nobody to do anything better, periscope is our fallback +20:38:38 psi, I agree about distributing it through bittorrent. +20:38:39 Woo! livestreamer (a Python tool) supports Periscope (http://docs.livestreamer.io/plugin_matrix.html). I and others could easily dump the stream to disk with it. +20:38:41 Title: Plugins Livestreamer 1.12.2 documentation (at docs.livestreamer.io) +20:39:09 nice find dg +20:39:13 hottuna: Yeah, not much equipment to set up. I'll talkk with chlorelium about sightlines and warning people about being filmed offline +20:39:13 dg, livestreaming is a bit more work to make actually work. +20:39:28 Okay, so we have zzz's phone and two HD cams from z3r0fox. More than enough to get video +20:39:34 z3r0fox +20:39:35 sounds good +20:39:37 hottuna: Yes, but if we have to use periscope via zzzphone, persistence isn't an issue. +20:39:42 although a secondary recording kept on the periscoping device would be ideal in case of stream outages.... +20:39:46 Pertinent issues: +20:40:01 a) Each speaker would need to give consent/no +20:40:15 re live streaming: Does anyone want to assume the responsibility of making that happen? +20:40:44 b) Cameras need to be set up such that they either only film the speakers, or provide plenty of blindspots for attendees who don't want to be filmed. +20:40:46 str4d, a) I think we could handle that at the event (if we don't have any complaints earlier) +20:40:49 * RN passes note to hottuna and chlorelium "make sure to give zzz's device highest QOS and firewall clearance... " ;) +20:40:57 str4d: that's doable +20:41:04 lol +20:41:09 c) We would also want to record the presentation itself, via a screen recorder +20:41:10 I'll do periscope. with my fancy $1 tripod and $4 mount +20:41:11 I'll talk to ops :) +20:41:16 zzz: showoff +20:41:26 (so it can be spliced into the final edit) +20:41:34 str4d: Good point about the slide decks, hmm +20:41:55 I guess a screen recorder could be set up. +20:42:14 decks is going to be easy, we can just ask them all to provide at the end +20:42:17 It *could* be handled post- if we had the slides themselves, but probably easier to just edit a third video stream in rather than inserting slides +20:42:19 str4d: I could just use the slides probably unless the presentation's animated +20:42:25 z3r0fox: could the video be made without a screen recorder (but with the presentations crammed in there somehow)? +20:42:34 z3r0fox: perfect +20:42:55 So far I haven't had any takers on organizing live-streaming +20:42:56 hottuna: yeah I would just pull them in as images on another video 'channel' in kdenlive +20:43:06 At CCC, the recorders tend to just alternate between the speaker and the presentation as for when it is pertinent. +20:43:11 if you all want to get your questions answered about periscope, install it on your phone and play around with it. follow the @i2p acct and i'll do a test later in the week +20:43:13 slides should probably be uploaded somewhere +20:43:15 yeah, could just display static slide from PDF/PowerPoint/whatever while playing audio from another video stream +20:43:20 So unless that changes, we won't have it. Which isn't a problem. +20:43:24 They show the slide for long enough for you to read, show the speaker when they get excited/haven't changed slide in a while, then go back to the slide, etc +20:43:32 hottuna: zzz is doing periscope +20:43:45 zzz, are you doing periscope? +20:43:49 your phone will bleep at you when I go live ;) +20:43:50 yes +20:43:56 <&zzz> I'll do periscope. with my fancy $1 tripod and $4 mount +20:44:04 yes +20:45:06 if zerofox has a tripod for me that would be even better. would keep it from being knocked over, but not req'd +20:46:23 zzz: Just have one at the moment, I was going to look into getting a second one used for cam 2 (second shot angle)... but I may have oneof those small tabletop ones somewhere as well +20:47:00 ok. bring duct tape ;) +20:47:11 ok. thats confirmation enough +20:47:13 i'm leaving it in your hands +20:47:13 alright, anything else regarding 4)? +20:47:13 *** 5) **** +20:47:13 5) I2PCon: Arrange schedule of event +20:47:13 I can't say I ahve a lot to say about it yet, but the contents of day#1&&day#2 is as follows +20:47:14 15 Aug +20:47:14 tentative time: 2PM - midnight Not necessarily in this order +20:47:15 Nick Johnston: "TOS and PII - What happens to your data when the company gets bought and sold?" Different terms of service from popular web apps +20:47:18 Keynote: Guest speaker 1 (1 hour) (before cryptoparty or after?) "Privacy vs. Intelligence - Why can't we all just get along?" +20:47:21 Dinner break - where/when? +20:47:21 Short I2P General presentation, by zzz: "Growing the Network, Spreading the Word" +20:47:23 Cryptoparty presentation, by ?? (j?) +20:47:23 Cryptoparty, by j (how long?) +20:47:25 16 Aug +20:47:25 tentative time: 12AM - 8 PM Not necessarily in this order +20:47:26 Confirmed guest speaker 2 (1 hour) "I2P Monitoring and Filtration" (requested time: early) +20:47:29 Confirmed guest speaker 1 (1 hour) "Anonymity protocols and malware - Why they fail" +20:47:31 I2P Technical presentation, by zzz: "The Connection Limit Challenge" +20:47:33 I2P Technical discussion, led by (zzz??) Topics TBD +20:47:34 I2P App Dev Intro, by psi +20:47:35 The Agony and the Ecstasy of I2P on Android, by str4d (via skype) +20:47:36 i2pd presentation by orignal Title: "i2pd"; requested time: 15 minutes +20:47:38 Roadmap meeting. led by zzz: When is 1.0? Crypto migration schedule (RI, snark) (EC vs. Ed), LS2, NTCP2, new DH, Java 7, SAM 3.2, Jetty 9, 12-month plan +20:47:41 Organizational meeting, led by zzz: Finances, roles, PR, servers and services, CCC planning +20:47:43 Dinner break - where/when? Order sandwich/pizza delivery? Guest speakers probably need to be before the break, as they may be flying out. +20:47:44 +20:47:45 forgive the slightly chaotic nature of it at the moment +20:47:46 sorting it out and fixing it is what's going to happen next +20:47:51 there's not much to add to 5), but now you all know what I know. +20:47:51 does anyone have anything else to add to 5)? +20:48:13 everyone is aware of what they're going to do/speak about? +20:48:34 is orignal OK now? +20:48:36 i still need to flesh out my talk all the way +20:48:37 seems good, should be online somewhere though +20:48:46 dg, he was always ok for a short talk? +20:48:49 EinMByte: it is +20:48:57 i was thinking workshop but it seems like it's a talk +20:49:01 hottuna: he was reluctant to speak at all, and wasn't sure what to say +20:49:13 I think he might need a bit of prompting for subjects +20:49:19 probably easier to do a talk +20:49:20 dg: link? +20:49:34 psi, would a short talk be ok? we could move it to the crypto party part of this? +20:49:59 dg, ok. I'm going to have to confirm orignal a second time. +20:50:07 i will do it OOB from this meeting +20:50:19 EinMByte: http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/MeetupToronto2015 +20:50:20 cryptoparty time makesss sense +20:50:28 i2p2.de if you're in the clearnet, but why are you? ;) +20:50:34 dg: thanks +20:51:19 ok. next topic? +20:51:30 question: how much of this is i2pcon and how much is cryptoparty +20:51:38 for my workshop i was going to have people write the example echo client serve +20:51:41 ehm. good question. +20:51:52 like, are we running a cryptoparty as a separate event, or are we just having the TC folks give presentations, or what? +20:51:54 we don't have enough crypto party stations at this point +20:52:02 so it's going to be heavily I2PCon +20:52:13 and a crypto party to the etent we can find crypto party volunteers +20:52:31 if anyone is willing to help others setup popular crypto tools like OTR, obviously I2P, Tor, etc., then that'd be appreciated +20:52:36 so this sounds like i2pcon with some involvement from TC, rather than one event nested inside another +20:52:41 Tails and that sort of thing. +20:52:59 chlorelium, the crypto party bit of day#1 will probably be scheduled for the lunch break and onkly be like an hour or two +20:53:51 hmm +20:53:52 okay +20:54:09 so hottuna mentioned irl just now that more volunteers are needed for the cryptoparty aspect +20:54:22 TC is the best for that, I'm not able to help so much in that area +20:55:06 not sure how everyone wants to run that. +20:55:42 Can we go to 6)? I have some comments and must leave soon +20:55:47 you could run the cryptoparty as sort of a socialization session +20:55:51 sure +20:55:56 EinMByte, sure +20:56:03 **** 6) **** +20:56:08 6) dogecoindark.i2p home page request +20:56:17 The website uses a lot of "external" stuff +20:56:36 That is, it uses resources from various non-i2p websites +20:56:48 The owner didn't really get the problem with that, but after speaking with him, he agreed that it's problematic in some cases. He felt it was ok to keep Facebook/Twitter share buttons. +20:57:01 zzz, EinMByte +20:57:05 this is my agenda item, hottuna may i have the floor? +20:57:25 zzz, please +20:57:28 Also, we already have anoncoin.i2p. Do we really need more cryptocurrency links? +20:57:43 thank you hottuna +20:57:53 the request is here http://zzz.i2p/topics/236?page=2#p9999 +20:58:03 Title: zzz.i2p: How to get my Eepsite added to the Router Console home page (at zzz.i2p) +20:58:06 in the form of answers to the questions in the first post of that thread +20:58:16 is the operator of the site here? +20:58:29 no, i've pinged him in another chan, he's been idle for 5m so give him a moment +20:59:50 Note also that the website needs javascript to load, which may be a problem for some people (like me) +21:00:11 ok, while we wait, does anybody have any comments pro or con? +21:00:48 i don't really know what the website is +21:01:08 It's a cryptocoin which supports I2P +21:01:24 is it straight up dogecoin? +21:01:34 re: 1MB's comments, we don't have external resource links or js use as criteria for rejection at the moment +21:01:37 no, it's dogecoin forked to have I2P support +21:02:05 The main problem (appart from technical stuff which can be fixed of course) I see is that we already have anoncoin on the homepage +21:02:09 let's go back to the basics. is this of general interest to the i2p community? +21:02:11 which is a very similar project +21:02:29 So I'm not sure if we need another cryptocurrency on the homepage +21:02:52 "We need more of everything" -- I don't know if it's a bad thing to have more than one. Got to account for the bus, and the bus almost hit Meeh.. he was gone for a while and Anoncoin is only recovering now. +21:03:06 we don't ever want just one of anything, and ANC is on life support anyway +21:03:26 I agree that "we need more of everything". But I don't think that applies to the homepage +21:04:09 does anybody here use dogecoindark? +21:04:41 anybody have any other comments? +21:04:43 abyss does, but he's not in here (and doesn't appear to be around at the moment). He runs a market. +21:04:52 I'm on the fence. I don't really mind. +21:05:42 anybody strongly in favor or strongly against? +21:05:52 Well, if there is interest from other people I'm ok with it BUT only if the external resource issue is resolved +21:05:58 im mildy in favor +21:06:08 (until then, strongly against, after that neutral) +21:06:27 can i be strongly indifferent? :D +21:06:34 doesn't hurt. I quess the fact that is depends on lots of external stuff is kind of bad. And there should be some kind of warning perhaps +21:06:38 That said, there should be a ruled wrt to external resources because it's a pretty serious problem +21:07:12 so you think home page eepsites should not load clearnet css/images? should that be a criterion? +21:07:32 possibly? +21:07:45 zzz: I think no eepsite should do that yes. Especially not the ones on the home page +21:08:13 it shouldn't be a blanket. if they have a good excuse we might allow it, not that I can think of any +21:08:13 In this case, it's probably not intentionally malicious +21:08:22 But it could be +21:09:25 I agree that outernet resources should be strongly discouraged +21:09:25 it's not a good user experience though +21:09:25 ok let's table this topic without a final decision for now +21:09:25 back to you hottuna thank you +21:09:25 ok :) +21:09:39 **** 7) **** +21:09:41 7) I2PCon: donations +21:09:51 Didn't zzz already comment on this? +21:09:57 Anyway, bye. +21:10:05 EinMByte, cya +21:10:42 So originally we were told that all donations collected during the con would be given to the hacklab +21:10:54 this came from dnj, through f3ndot +21:11:02 dnj and I discussed this the other day as well +21:11:19 It's not actually a big deal though; if i2p wants some/all of the donations, we can arrange for that +21:11:21 I don't recall anybody promising that +21:11:26 nor do I +21:12:29 I'm just going to have to tell the hacklab membership. I doubt they'll be particularly upset +21:12:29 hottuna, did you make that promise? +21:12:29 hmm, interesting. so there's a bit of broken communication somewhere. +21:12:29 I think it's reasonable to give a contribution for the services but I don't remember a commitment +21:12:29 no. It must've come up between dnj and f3ndot +21:12:29 I havent really touched the topic of donations before +21:12:39 So, what are our requirements for donations? +21:12:42 Do we have ny? +21:12:43 *any +21:12:43 Do we care? +21:12:55 Could we have separate donation boxes? +21:12:59 i propose we have a single bucket and we split it 3 ways i2p/TC/hacklab after covering booze costs +21:13:13 Or one with which we split? +21:13:23 boxes sounds good but risks saturation of any funds.. a bucket would be good +21:13:25 zzz, that sounds good to me. +21:13:37 :p +21:13:37 zzz: if we have the donation bucket cover booze before it's split, we need a $75 event permit +21:13:38 i'm sure the topic of I2P finance/project scale will come up in the talks which means people may be willing to donate something anyway +21:13:41 we are paying for the hacklab services already +21:13:54 does anyone mind the idea of splitting the contents of the donation box? +21:13:57 ontario law is that the hosting org needs to absorb all alcohol costs +21:14:10 who is the hosting org? +21:14:12 if people really want to give to us, they can do that +21:14:19 zzz: oh. then between i2p/tc depending on how much tc helps with +21:14:41 whose name on the permit? +21:14:44 zzz: hacklab is on the application +21:14:47 so the donations aren't tied to booze. and let's not say that they are. it would just be a problem for everyone involved. +21:15:51 yeah but you realize we can't give you 1/3 of gross +21:17:07 zzz, are you saying that we don't want to hand 1/3rd over to hacklab? +21:17:07 so hacklab, not i2p, is buying all the beer? +21:17:07 who is buying the beer? +21:17:07 technically yes, practically no. +21:17:08 ^ this +21:17:18 eche|on, or someone will walk to the booze-store with the permit and buy what we need. +21:17:26 ok then lets not get all techical/practical about donations +21:17:46 Okay, so hacklab is being paid for venue hire, and will increase their invoice to cover their beer costs, no? +21:17:59 str4d, no. +21:18:09 we're paying for beer. +21:18:11 Then I'm confused +21:18:20 it will come out of eche|ons pocket +21:18:27 hottuna: I was speaking technically +21:18:34 hacklab isn't monetarily involved in it +21:18:43 str4d: that's understandable, the permitting process is ridiculous. incidentally, I apologize in advance for how complicated all of this is. +21:18:44 (since they are required by law to cover it, no?) +21:19:09 ah. technically they're buying booze, practically we (echelon) are +21:19:17 I just want to make sure that asses are covered +21:19:21 K +21:19:26 pretty much. you can take the permit to the LCBO, or we can do it +21:19:30 as long as the costs are covered. +21:19:52 i think we have this sorted out well enough. +21:19:55 So on any invoice, it would appear as "venue: $X. booze: $Y. Already paid: $Y. Due: $X." +21:19:59 K +21:20:03 you're renting the lab space, essentially, which in this case makes you a representative of the venue. or that's what I'm going to say if anyone asks. +21:20:24 str4d: sure. we generally don't invoice people, but that can be arranged no problem. +21:20:29 so i'm back to my original proposal, we have a single donation bucket, and that above and beyond certain (cough) expenses, we graciously split the rest, if any, 3 ways with TC and hacklab +21:21:16 chlorelium: not sure if invoices are required by law, is the thing. You could say better than me :) +21:21:31 zzz, do we really want to go about it that way. +21:21:33 assuming TC wants any $$ +21:21:38 i'd rather do it properly. +21:21:44 what is properly? +21:22:02 ^^ what is properly, indeed? +21:22:02 zzz: incidentally, how much did you discuss renting the lab space for back in april (or whenever this was worked out)? +21:22:05 let's hear your proposal +21:22:15 properly as not have any boze money taken out of the donation box. +21:22:21 chlorelium, tuna did the negotiations +21:22:22 my proposal is we split it 3 ways +21:23:01 if you don't want to take booze money taken out of donations, then let's spend $50 more and sell the beer +21:23:17 does anyone want to stand there and sell beer? +21:23:42 otherwise i2p is giving several dollars to TC and hacklab for every beer that we give away! +21:23:43 If we spend $50 more, then we *can* take booze money out of donations +21:24:02 (IIUC) +21:24:16 or else have three buckets +21:24:23 str4d, I guess that is correct. but do you really know that we'll get 50$ in donations? +21:24:39 i think we're overthinking this. +21:25:05 the donations are _not_ going to be anywhere near the expenses we've had putting this event on +21:25:33 giving 2/3 of our donations away starting at first dollar, when we're paying for the beer is a terrible idea +21:25:34 we're talking about $50-$100 worth of beer. +21:25:38 that's not a lot. +21:25:43 hey +21:25:45 so +21:25:47 let me check the regulations +21:25:54 I think I need to re-read some wording +21:26:05 essentially, we can't tell people to donate to cover beer cost +21:26:18 if people donate and we take money out of the pot to cover that, it might be fine +21:26:26 the wording is ambiguous in the doc I read +21:26:31 as for splitting the pot +21:26:52 chlorelium, if that is legal, let's do that. +21:27:04 do it whichever way you would like. I'm not hung up on it. $150/day was pledged by i2p/tc for use of the space, and I'm happy for that +21:28:17 There's also the fact to consider that hacklab is being paid for services rendered, vs. TC and I2P effectively volunteering. +21:29:30 str4d: absolutely +21:29:40 okay, here's the wording from the agco permit. +21:29:44 Will alcohol be sold? +21:29:44 You must answer “yes” to this question if you are +21:29:44 collecting money for alcohol either directly, through +21:29:44 the sale of alcohol or drink tickets at the event (e.g. +21:29:46 cash bar, sale of drink tickets), or indirectly through +21:29:49 the sale of admission, membership fees or the collection +21:29:51 of money for alcohol before the event. +21:29:54 so I think we're in the clear +21:30:08 So it's all basically fine. +21:30:19 I called AGCO about this and they gave me a really wishy-washy answer. so all is well, I think. +21:30:32 (donations - beer_costs) / 3 +21:30:40 I don't think hacklab should get any donation cut +21:30:51 They're being helpful but we are paying them for services +21:31:01 dg, they're not making a lot of money here. +21:31:22 Can we pay more for the beer licence, include that in what we pay them, and split donations between I2P and TC (depending on how much help TC gives)? +21:32:30 dg, if we do a donation box, it's ok to subtract money from the donated amount to cover beer costs according to the text above +21:32:39 so we dont need a fancier license +21:32:44 oh, cool +21:32:45 So while I have no objections to hacklab receiving some of the donations, perhaps the split could be e.g. 1:2:2? +21:32:51 (I didn't get any text) +21:32:56 I would like to give them a part of the donations since A) they were promised it (by J it would seem) +21:33:05 this is going to be a lot more than $50 worth of beer. I'm going to drink $50 worth myself. +21:33:20 that's what I thought ;). people at hacker cons like beer. a lot +21:33:44 * fox reminds you all not to cheap out on beer or buy anything american +21:34:07 so hottuna's laptop just craped out +21:34:21 let's not honor other people's promises +21:34:27 so I just talked to two other hacklab board members +21:34:33 I don't give j's promises to hacklab any weight, no. +21:34:49 we're cool with just $300 for the space usage, and covering the $25 alcohol license if that's cool +21:34:53 B) because they're part of the same community we are. +21:34:57 you can keep the donations +21:35:12 and sorry for all of the miscommuncation :( +21:35:18 i would still like to split it 3 ways. +21:35:29 does anyone else want to split it 3 ways? +21:35:35 I'm ok with 1/1/1 split after (cough) costs +21:35:44 and with covering their $25 +21:35:50 hottuna_: I suggested maybe 1/2/2 split +21:35:50 zzz, that's what im proposing +21:36:07 (unless people don't like hard math :P) +21:36:17 str4d, let's not do anything fancy here. +21:36:28 i would prefer an equal split +21:36:43 doing anything else just implies a bunch of stuff. +21:37:23 have a managed to convince everyone of a (donations-beer)/3 split? +21:37:28 to be clear: I'm very happy to host y'all here, I just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page. I don't want to cause any rancor. The love of money is the root of all evil :) +21:37:40 ok, but let's have an emphasis on I2P's size and need for more donations during talks. People can seek out our donation info if they want to +21:37:59 Sure, let's cram it in there somewhere. +21:38:25 str4d, dg, zzz: is that ok? +21:38:34 So to summarize, we have hacklab saying "We don't need donations", hottuna_ saying "You *will* take donations", and everyone else not really minding either way? :P +21:38:53 yes. that sums it up. +21:38:54 For the record, I don't mind a 1/1/1 split +21:38:59 str4d: pretty much :P +21:39:00 hottuna_: ok from me +21:39:00 want to do it my way? +21:39:23 (after (cough) costs) +21:39:23 ok. +21:39:29 yes. +21:39:31 ok. +21:39:41 ok I tihnk we're done here. +21:39:46 anything else? +21:39:51 in general or i2pcon? +21:39:56 either +21:40:02 psi: you still around? +21:40:06 yes +21:40:19 ok, i2pconish: +21:40:20 <+dg> Somebody a few days ago by the name of 'saltire' messaged me, inquiring about setting up a relay between OFTC and IRC2P for #torontocrypto. He hasn't messaged me since, and #torontocrypto has no relay (just ChanServ and I). Would saltire, or somebody else from the TC side, be able to set one up? +21:40:22 <+dg> I could probably do it because OFTC allows Tor, but I'd prefer a TC person. +21:40:38 hottuna: Could you speak to saltire for a follow-up? +21:40:43 str4d: yes +21:41:17 dg.. sure +21:41:20 one se +21:41:22 c +21:41:38 If saltire was asking if they could set it up, they only have to ask the network ops and the owner of the #torontocrypto channel on Irc2P +21:41:45 reminder that relays to irc2p require irc op permission (although dg is one) +21:41:52 dg, I pinged him. +21:42:01 im leaving the rest of this up to the two of you. +21:42:18 saltire is typically available on #torontocrypto @ OFTC +21:42:20 thanks, and thx for the reminder, i would like to liaison with them if they could get back to me +21:42:43 If nobody's too exhausted from 3h of I2PCon and donation shoving... +21:42:48 :P +21:44:00 ok +21:44:00 this meeting is officially over +21:44:00 baf's the meeting hammer diff --git a/i2p2www/meetings/logs/238.rst b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/238.rst new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf3690ef --- /dev/null +++ b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/238.rst @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@ +I2P dev meeting, July 14, 2015 @ 20:00 UTC +========================================== + +Quick recap +----------- + +* **Present:** + +chlorelium, +dg, +EinMByte, +hottuna_, +hottuna, +lazygravy, +psi, +RN, +str4d, +z3r0fox, +zzz, diff --git a/i2p2www/meetings/logs/239.log b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/239.log new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0d82d772 --- /dev/null +++ b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/239.log @@ -0,0 +1,279 @@ +19:59:41 0) Hi +19:59:41 1) 32C3 Budget +19:59:41 2) Other 32C3 todo items - banner, etc. +19:59:41 3) RWC Budget +19:59:44 0) Hi +19:59:47 Hi +19:59:50 hi +19:59:53 hi +19:59:59 1) 32C3 Budget +19:59:59 hi +20:00:23 ok, the plan is to do what we did for Toronto, which is to set an overall budget and let echelon handle the details +20:00:43 i love soylent and you +20:00:46 oups +20:00:47 echelon, what's the total of the travel requests for funds that you got +20:01:06 currently it is roughly 4k and 2 BTC +20:01:56 as calculated how? +20:02:03 ok, were there any excessive requests or request from any randoms that we need to discuss, or was everything reasonable? +20:02:41 all reasonable, non above 1k euro so far, so... all fine +20:02:52 some did wrote too much information, haha +20:03:22 and about how much more to pay for CCC tickets, a dinner, gummy snakes and such? +20:04:06 I think dinner will be 500€+x, tickets will be 100€ each (at 10 ppl roughly) and snakes and small stuff in the 200-300€ +20:04:24 dinner for 20+x +20:05:04 so that's 1800 euros + 4K travel + ~500 for 2 BTC is 6300 euros total, right? +20:05:53 yeah, but we will not scratch up to that, IMHO some of the travel fund will be payed in BTC, and dinner could be cheaper... +20:05:59 so lets say 6k +20:06:34 last year we did have had 1257€ without travel costs +20:06:38 that sounds pretty reasonable to me, let's throw it open to discussion... what do people think? +20:06:39 and a few tickets +20:07:13 does that mean we'll be reaching our 10% spending goal per year? +20:07:31 sure +20:07:53 as in we'll be below 10%? +20:08:01 doubt it, we have ~250K and we only spent 4-5K on toronto iirc +20:08:02 sure +20:08:22 wait, 150k, not 250... +20:08:49 either way, we're well under 10%, back of the envelope +20:09:02 and currently we spent 5.3k this year +20:09:19 ok. i'm happy with that. +20:09:22 any objections to a 6K Euro budget for CCC? +20:10:05 great +20:10:41 as always eche|on I think we prefer to reimburse people, but we can pay in advance if people really need it to buy tickets, right? +20:11:25 is there a way to know how much you'll be reimbursed for? +20:11:25 correct +20:11:44 I think we just approved 100% of people's requests, correct? +20:11:49 yes +20:12:05 ok, so whatever you asked for is what you'll get hottuna2 +20:12:13 ok +20:12:23 thank you very much eche|on I think this process worked well +20:12:27 anything else on 1) ? +20:12:53 2) Other 32C3 todo items - banner, etc. +20:13:05 banner is still in toronto +20:13:10 poster - we need a poster +20:13:28 DECT phones part 2? banner? poster? what needs to be done, any volunteers? +20:13:35 we need a table (I try to get into wiki and make some page about our group) +20:13:45 who has the banner? +20:13:57 I do not have it. +20:13:57 j0 +20:13:58 it was at toronto hacklab +20:14:13 should I bring the podium graphic from i2pcon? +20:14:40 hottuna2, can you be in charge of finding the banner in Toronto and bringing it? +20:14:53 DECT phones could be done, but I do not know, everyone has a mobile, Wifi available... +20:15:13 maybe twitter DM has rendered DECT obsolete +20:15:15 zzz, will do. +20:15:19 hottuna2: there was a twitter discussion with sadie about the banner and let her bring it to hamburg +20:15:23 i'm just going to twitter +20:15:41 irc if no response +20:15:50 do we need any other marketing type of material? +20:15:50 table needs to be reserved asap +20:15:59 stickers +20:16:06 eche|on, you volunteered to reserve the table? +20:16:28 a folder (3 columns, folded) with basic informations would really help, but not available +20:16:44 zzz: I can try to reserve the table on 26th ahead of cinema +20:16:56 or better: I try my best to reserve it +20:17:00 usual place, or? +20:17:10 dg: would be best, noisysquare +20:17:11 yeah, but you volunteered to sign up on the wiki, right echelon? +20:17:13 just a question: how big is the table usually? +20:17:24 yeah, I try to do the wiki, also +20:17:28 8-10 +20:17:30 eche|on: didn't we have a folder contest a while back +20:17:31 eche|on: ah good +20:17:32 Sadie says Hi from twitter +20:17:36 zzz: so room for everyone? +20:17:38 the table is mostly a round table for 8-10, or a square table +20:17:51 hottuna2: she needs2irc +20:17:56 we're never all there at the same time, not to worry +20:17:58 cacapo: yeah, but the results of fodler contest were not useable AFAIR +20:18:03 that's what I'm telling her +20:18:20 alright :) +20:18:34 there was also the idea of USB stick giveaways, I looked into it, looks like $2 in bulk for small-capacity +20:18:41 i'm waiting for schedule so i can plan my day +20:18:42 http://echelon.i2p/29c3/ +20:18:46 Title: 29C3 I2P contest (at echelon.i2p) +20:18:51 know when to duck in/out +20:19:29 dg: usual we meet in 10-12am and leave after 1am... +20:19:47 so re: poster, who is looking into that? +20:19:48 zzz: the USB sticks are nice +20:20:03 but I do not know if really useful +20:20:13 so the 2015 wiki for 32c3 does not appear to be open yet +20:20:28 hottuna2: correct +20:20:36 eche|on: past my bedtime ;) fits my lie ins +20:20:43 I'm not humping hundreds of USBs across the ocean. Dunno if too late to get logo'ed ones +20:20:46 is the CCH open all night? +20:20:58 dg: CCH is open 24/7 +20:21:08 let's defer talk about CCC basics and logistics for now +20:21:20 ok, thx eche|on +20:21:22 this agenda item is for prep only +20:21:36 zzz: 2 weeks time on one sender +20:22:07 anybody want to volunteer for a poster or for USB sticks? +20:22:29 and what was the answer on stickers? +20:22:32 but a USB stick/card is around 4-6€ eeach +20:22:48 I saw them for about $2 on ebay +20:22:58 i'm not sure i'm I understand the idea behind the usb sticks +20:23:08 but those weren't customized I dont think +20:23:15 would we bundle i2p, just put our logo on it, or...? +20:23:22 both +20:23:44 not sure I feel that's a good use of money. if we were tails it would've been a different story +20:24:41 I am not really a fan of USB in this pricy area, as we would need 100+x, thats at least 500€ +20:24:45 for printed ones +20:24:47 ok +20:24:51 with a less use +20:25:10 so lets skip the USB sticks. What about stickers? How's the supply over there? Did you bring them all over here or? +20:25:17 hottuna2: we don't even need to give aaway the USBs +20:25:24 I still got stickers left +20:25:42 zzz: i have a bunch of stickers that tuna gave me as well, i don't mind bringing them with me +20:25:44 If they are decent enough, could sell at cost +20:25:45 but some of the toronto connections wanted to create a new design AFAIK. +20:25:55 (sorry tuna, i'm trying to give out as many as i can) +20:26:05 i might have some stickers +20:26:11 str4d: I do not like to sell and handle some money beside my debit card on CCC +20:26:16 eche|on, you have enough for CCC or you need comradenosebleed to bring some? +20:26:30 do we want to get some more t-shirts +20:26:40 I got enough for CCC, but thats my last I got +20:26:53 i probably have 200 or so sitting on my desk, i have no problems bringing them with me +20:27:07 so I need a new design, or I get another 10k with the same design +20:27:13 and a separate question, do we want to sell them? +20:27:23 eche|on: I would like to get a new design made +20:27:33 before new stickers are ordered +20:27:36 let's defer buying more stickers for now if we have enough for CCC and there's potential for a new design +20:27:44 right +20:27:51 no, I don't think we should sell them +20:27:53 will bring some anyway +20:28:02 zzz, agreed. +20:28:12 no one sells stickers at cons :P +20:28:21 The advertizing alone covers it +20:28:22 still, do we want to get more t-shirts? +20:28:43 hottuna2: we can ask in zzz.i2p for visitors (i2p team) needing/wanting a shirt. at least dg and str4d need them +20:28:46 (oh wait, t-shirts, nvm) +20:28:46 yes +20:28:56 I say no to t-shirts. too much of a hassle to sell, and pretty much everybody has one, right? +20:29:05 I don't +20:29:11 I won't be at CCC tho +20:29:13 and postman postman !?? +20:29:20 oh, sry... +20:29:20 postman is joining us btw :) +20:29:29 for the one-offs, they can buy it on spreadshirt +20:29:40 if they want +20:30:04 That was my plan :) +20:30:19 what was the answer on the poster? Maybe tuna and sadie will do something, maybe not? +20:30:22 will get one too, no need to order more for the project +20:30:37 is the timothy leary poster still around? +20:31:27 zzz, so no t-shirt for dg or postman? +20:31:37 I don't mind ordering/bringing them. +20:31:40 hey, i would take one +20:31:49 http://echelon.i2p/29c3/user5/poster/final_with_garlic.jpg +20:32:03 zzz: that one? +20:32:06 I'd like a yellow one if you've got one but I'll order it myself if not +20:32:43 dg, postman what sizes are you? +20:32:45 sounds like it's between tuna and postman and dg to figure out t-shirts, whether tuna orders them or the others just order their own +20:32:56 t-shirt costs can be refunded on 32C3 for team members +20:33:03 yeah sorry we'll leave it for later :) +20:33:26 ok, so the project will reimburse for t-shirts for those that don't have them +20:33:34 any objections to that? +20:33:41 we did pay the other shirts already +20:33:48 yup +20:34:31 ok, sounds like we don't have a poster answer atm, but no big deal if we don't get one +20:34:31 date for dinner pre-announce? +20:34:32 no +20:34:32 that's how it's been done previously +20:34:39 yes eche|on that's the leary poster +20:35:09 eche|on, you have a proposal for which nite for dinner? +20:35:42 hmm, 27th is a bit early, but still fine. 28th or 29th are fine, too. But I need to wait for talk schedule +20:36:03 ok, maybe let's pencil in 28th, subject to change +20:36:08 anything else on 2) ? +20:36:09 We can do the 27th, it´s sunday, first evening, all are jet-lagged, no one wants beer, cheap^^ +20:36:49 last call for 2) +20:36:51 no thanks for 27th +20:37:20 3) RWC Budget +20:37:36 eche|on, any requests for RWC funding? What's the total? +20:37:51 yeah, thats a bit non-anon, as I got one request of 500€ for hotel costs at RWC +20:38:20 sounds reasonable, any objections? +20:38:25 no +20:38:30 if the paper is good, all fine^^ +20:38:51 and it is 2016, new year, new 10% *g* +20:39:24 I encourage anybody that can get to RWC to check it out, it's a good conference +20:39:35 anything else on 3) ? +20:39:40 to far away from me +20:39:53 although interesting, sure +20:39:55 too far & incompatible w/ CCC +20:40:50 ok, any other topics? I know i shot down i2pcontrol, 32c3 talk, and forum replacement over on the zzz.i2p thread, but if anybody wants to discuss _briefly_ speak up now +20:41:33 yeah. i'd like to talk about forum.i2p +20:41:38 do we want to replace it? +20:41:52 just wrt forum replacement, we're open to it and discussing it. if anyone thinks it's a good idea for us to do it, hit up postman/myself/eche|on. we're in a position to run one, but we dunno if there's much support +20:42:33 I'll paste in my position from zzz.i2p, others may disagree, that's fine +20:42:35 i think we should have a public facing place for discussions +20:42:54 My consistent view has been that users will vote with their feet, let a thousand flowers bloom, etc. etc. It's not necessary or even wise for us to anoint a replacement. One or more are free to apply for placement on the console home page following our usual process. If somebody wants to set up a forum site, they should do so, +20:43:18 I don't agree. +20:43:19 hottuna2: while I'm very open about a forum, what is not open about zzz.i2p? for the record it's unlikely a forum.i2p run by postman/echelon/myself will be on clearnet +20:43:43 I think we should have a clearnet forum. +20:43:47 zzz.i2p is not open to all topics +20:44:01 interacting with i2p now is like interacting with a brick. +20:44:06 forums get _hammered_ by spiders via inproxies +20:45:15 and hammered by spam via inproxies +20:45:15 there's the irc and zzz.i2p. that is it as far as public communications go with i2p +20:45:15 how are we to attract people new to anonymity tools if we're not even available to these people? +20:45:15 zzz.i2p is dev talk, a user talk forum would be nice, but it cannot be run on clearnet +20:45:15 I'd like to see more use of the blog on our website by the PR team +20:45:16 I get that running a forum is highly inconvenient. +20:45:19 forum.i2p is currently a good forum, I keep it as clean as I like +20:45:36 administering one is fine, clearnet is going to be difficult. It's possible but... +20:45:38 forum will be dead by year-end due to rekey +20:45:38 but our blog does not support communication both ways. the lbog is just a broadcasting tool. +20:45:53 I see that clearnet would be helpful for support though. +20:46:02 so this is a relevant topic to try to deal with as soon as possible. +20:46:38 anybody wants to run a (or "the") forum replacement? go for it, you don't need anybody's permission +20:46:42 support and also attracting new developers. showing people the topics we are discussing is a way to attract developers and people of all skill-levels +20:46:50 I don't see a simple way to add a blog without going beyond the near-static approach +20:47:19 the irc2p team is up for it, but I don't know how to handle the clearnet problem +20:47:21 hottuna2, nobody's saying a forum isn't a good thing +20:47:47 comment section to the* +20:47:53 so we agree that having one would be helpful to us? +20:47:55 dg: forum.i2p was clearnet, it did not went out well, was closed and all is fine +20:48:09 I declared forum.i2p dead back in January. There's been plenty of time. +20:48:16 and we also agree that we want to reach out and attract newbies to join i2p? +20:48:23 eche|on: it would be helpful for user supports though +20:48:36 having it be more than a vaporware goal requires action +20:48:37 dg: not worth the hassle +20:48:42 hottuna2, agreed forums are good. Not sure if one of us needs to run one. And not sure I've heard anybody volunteering. +20:49:08 I don't care about handling the spam, I just want to remain anonymous and you can't do that while running a clearnet site +20:49:23 yes +20:50:46 dg, could I or someone else rent the root server? +20:50:46 but really, you do not want the i2p forum clearnet +20:50:46 and you have access to it through i2p+ssh? +20:50:46 so perhaps dg as admin combined with some server resources could be a solution +20:50:46 hottuna2: That's something we can discuss if you (or someone else) is comfortable with the cost +20:50:46 eche|on: I want the forum to be clearnet and on i2p +20:50:46 hottuna2: you will loose it. +20:50:46 forum.i2p has had massive spam issues +20:50:46 eche|on: I know clearnet can be a problem but a lot of users like it as a support mechanism +20:50:46 irc is not for everyone, especially where we have the "deep sleep chamber" +20:50:46 thats why it was closed down +20:50:46 sure, clearnet a nice dream, maybe solveable, maybe not +20:50:50 forum.i2p is still a good support channel +20:50:54 dg, i'm comfortable with that, and also think that i2p would re-imburse an forum server +20:51:24 happy to try it and if it doesn't work, we'll be i2p only. I don't know about i2p reimbursing it (not my decision though), but then again, i2p already reimburses core services... +20:51:25 How many moderators were around on the forum while it was clearnet? If we had more mods we would be able to trim down on abuse, spam, etc. +20:51:35 eche|on: eche|on: would i2p sponsor a forum machine? +20:51:35 comradenosebleed: afaik it was just eche|on +20:51:43 comradenosebleed: we did have had at least 5-10 people +20:51:49 hottuna2: I'm happy to admin in any case, just don't want to put a burden on you. +20:51:53 but a damned stupid guy spammed and did some DDOS +20:52:06 dg, would you volunteer to set up and admin a clearner+hidden forum? +20:52:07 dg maybe you can estimate bandwidth/processing power requirements and put together a proposal? +20:52:25 hottuna2, zzz: OK, i'll work with hottuna2 on that and we can figure out a proposal +20:52:36 hottuna2: as long as I can be anon still, no problem +20:52:38 getting a quite powerful server from hertzner is about 30€/month +20:52:42 I'm still not in favor but willing to listen +20:52:55 we have spare VM's now but depends on load +20:53:02 ok anything else on forum? +20:53:06 anything else for the meeting? +20:53:11 also while being clearnet you cannot hsot a lot of topics which are right now in forum.i2p +20:53:11 * zzz warms up the baffer +20:53:28 zzz, eche|on: re spare vms, do we want to place all of our infrastructure on the same host? +20:53:30 e.g. you will need a native russian guy for the forum to admin it +20:53:31 I volunteer myself as a mod if we put up a clearnet forum. As much as I hate to suggest cloudflare to host it, they do have excellent ddos prevention +20:54:01 comradenosebleed: noted +20:54:02 and tha tone would need to know the rules of the country the host is hosted in (hetzner is german, german has some strange laws, e.g.) +20:54:15 you all feel free to continue the forum talk, however I... am... +20:54:23 baffing! +20:54:25 .. *baffing* the meeting closed diff --git a/i2p2www/meetings/logs/239.rst b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/239.rst new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e6c601b0 --- /dev/null +++ b/i2p2www/meetings/logs/239.rst @@ -0,0 +1,16 @@ +I2P dev meeting, October 06, 2015 @ 20:00 UTC +============================================= + +Quick recap +----------- + +* **Present:** + +cacapo, +comradenosebleed, +dg, +eche|on, +hottuna2, +postman, +str4d, +zzz,